Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!? (Read 16770 times)
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #17 - 04/02/14 at 09:52:20
Post Tools
A brief investigation over some of my databases is showing that the new move is 12...a6 while your 8.Nc3 was played three times before.
Though, it doesn't lessen your achievement. Wink
Anyway, here are the games I have found after 8.Nc3

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
vallescure
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 44
Joined: 09/20/11
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #16 - 04/02/14 at 05:34:35
Post Tools
My game is over , so I may publish it :

[Event "Berliner Inv/B (USA)"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2013.08.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "LePage, Claude"]
[Black "Baumgartner, Ulrich"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2425"]
[BlackElo "2391"]
[PlyCount "67"]
[EventDate "2013.??.??"]

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. dxc5 e6 5. Qg4 h5 6. Qf4 Bxc5 7. Bd3 Qb6 8. Nc3
Nh6 9. h3 Nc6 10. a3 Bd4 11. Nf3 Bxf2+ 12. Ke2 a6 13. Rf1 Bc5 14. Na4 Qa7 15.
b4 Bb6 16. Nxb6 Qxb6 17. g4 Qd8 18. Be3 b6 19. Rad1 hxg4 20. hxg4 Bb7 21. Rh1
Rf8 22. Rh5 Ne7 23. Nd4 Kd7 24. g5 Ng6 25. Qg3 Ng8 26. Rh7 N8e7 27. Rxg7 Qc7
28. Bxg6 Nxg6 29. Rf1 Rae8 30. Rgxf7+ Rxf7 31. Rxf7+ Re7 32. Rxe7+ Nxe7 33. g6
Ng8 34. Qf3 1-0

Thanks to Watson !
It needs to be checked , but I think that 8 Nc3 is a novelty ( maybe a TN )
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 868
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #15 - 01/16/14 at 09:42:09
Post Tools
Willempie wrote on 03/08/05 at 09:59:09:
1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 e5 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 Be2
[Now e6 is a lousy advance french and Qb6 allows 6 dxc5 Qxc5 7 b4 and a pawn is dropped]
5 ... Bf5 6 Nf3 e6



This sequence transposes back to a position arising from 3. .. Bf5 that was a main line in the earliest days of the variation.

Short v Seirawan from the Mamila Interzonal in 1990 being one such example.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
vallescure
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 44
Joined: 09/20/11
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #14 - 01/15/14 at 20:23:01
Post Tools
It's possible to play Qg4 one move before , after 4 dxc5 e6 5 Qg4
I have a game like this , that becomes a sort of Pandemonium , but I may not tell more , since it's ongoing
This variation had already been noticed by Watson in "Maitriser les Ouvertures"
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2338
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #13 - 07/10/13 at 06:20:05
Post Tools
MaSu wrote on 07/08/13 at 20:05:58:
I think 3...c5 4.dxc5 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.c3 e6 7.Be3 is better for white
(but I have no idea where to look for an advantage after 3...Bf5)


I think that black has no problems after 7.--Nge7 8.Nbd2 - Nf5 9. Bd4 - Be7 is good enough.  Blacks play is easier. Whites pawn structure is bad.

In the 3.--Bf5 line, White has some lines, where white must play very accurate. 4.Nc3-e6 5.g4-Bg6 6.Nge2 or 4.h4-h5 5.Bg5!? [/quote]

This is, I humbly suggest, a crass oversimplification. There is a lot of theory in these lines. A huge amount. As ever, in a state of flux.
« Last Edit: 07/10/13 at 22:38:31 by GMTonyKosten »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2073
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #12 - 07/09/13 at 09:55:08
Post Tools
Rather flippant that really Smiley White might not have a great pawn structure but one of them is extra and that queenside pawn mass is potentially very threatening indeed.

That correspondence game looked like quite hard work for black in some ways.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MaSu
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 28
Joined: 11/01/08
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #11 - 07/08/13 at 20:05:58
Post Tools
Quote:
I think 3...c5 4.dxc5 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.c3 e6 7.Be3 is better for white
(but I have no idea where to look for an advantage after 3...Bf5)


I think that black has no problems after 7.--Nge7 8.Nbd2 - Nf5 9. Bd4 - Be7 is good enough.  Blacks play is easier. Whites pawn structure is bad.

In the 3.--Bf5 line, White has some lines, where white must play very accurate. 4.Nc3-e6 5.g4-Bg6 6.Nge2 or 4.h4-h5 5.Bg5!?
« Last Edit: 07/10/13 at 22:37:53 by GMTonyKosten »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #10 - 07/07/13 at 13:24:48
Post Tools
Today's engines can equalize everywhere.. Look at this one:



9...Bh5!?  Cool
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tony37
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Joined: 10/16/10
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #9 - 07/07/13 at 13:06:23
Post Tools
MaSu wrote on 07/07/13 at 11:19:30:
In the Advance Caro-Kann with 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5, I sometimes wonder whether 3...c5! deserves to be called the main line (instead of 3...Bf5). After, for example, 4.dxc5 Nc6 5.Bb5 e6 6.Be3 Nge7 7.c3 Bd7 8.Bxc6 Nxc6 9.f4 g5! I'm not convinced that White can prove any advantage (can anyone convince me otherwise?), e.g. 10.fxg5 Nxe5 11.Nf3 Nxf3+ 12.Qxf3 Bg7 13.0-0 0-0 14.Nd2 Bb5 with compensation for the pawn (as given on ChessPub). I think I would prefer Black in this position.

I think 3...c5 4.dxc5 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.c3 e6 7.Be3 is better for white
(but I have no idea where to look for an advantage after 3...Bf5)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #8 - 07/07/13 at 12:21:33
Post Tools
MaSu wrote on 07/07/13 at 11:19:30:
[quote author=063924352325560 link=1054160456/0#0 date=1054142455]Does anyone have any games or analysis with this move?


I prepared for you all the games I've found after 6.Qg4 (105 in number) in a single Chessbase database. http://limelinx.com/2dho
Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MaSu
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 28
Joined: 11/01/08
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #7 - 07/07/13 at 11:19:30
Post Tools
[quote author=063924352325560 link=1054160456/0#0 date=1054142455]In the Advance Caro-Kann with 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5, I sometimes wonder whether 3...c5! deserves to be called the main line (instead of 3...Bf5). After, for example, 4.dxc5 Nc6 5.Bb5 e6 6.Be3 Nge7 7.c3 Bd7 8.Bxc6 Nxc6 9.f4 g5! I'm not convinced that White can prove any advantage (can anyone convince me otherwise?), e.g. 10.fxg5 Nxe5 11.Nf3 Nxf3+ 12.Qxf3 Bg7 13.0-0 0-0 14.Nd2 Bb5 with compensation for the pawn (as given on ChessPub). I think I would prefer Black in this position.

So in the above line, how about 6.Qg4!? (instead of 6.Be3) as a way for White to try and play for an edge? This move is mentioned on ChessPub, but without any follow up. Does anyone have any games or analysis with this move?

I think that 6.Qg4 is more ?! than !? Black plays 6.--h5 and White is in trouble with his queen. 7.Qg3 is lost after 7.--Qa5 8.Nc3-d4 and so White has nothing better than something like 7.Bxc6 - bxc6 8.Qb4-a5 and I like blacks position. Perhaps a bit better is 7.Qb4-Nge7 8.Nf3-Ld7 9. Qa3-Ng6 10.Bxc6-Bxc6 11.0-0-Qc7 but black has no problems and on the long run with the bishops the better prospects.
Perhaps you can show me something better for white.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #6 - 03/08/05 at 09:59:09
Post Tools
I have never trusted this line as you lose a tempo compared to the advance french. Even 4 c3 is more annoying than often is let on. I played the following variation a few weeks back on the club. Note that it is patzer level, still I thought my 5th move was quite good:
White: Willempie
Black: NN
1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 e5 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 Be2
[Now e6 is a lousy advance french and Qb6 allows 6 dxc5 Qxc5 7 b4 and a pawn is dropped]
5 ... Bf5 6 Nf3 e6 7 Qb3 Qc7 8 0-0 Nge7 9 Na3 a6 10 dxc5 Ng6 11 Nd4 Ngxe5 12 Nxf5 exf5 13 Be3 Be7 14 Rad1 [and I remained a pawn up. Or better said he kept a doubled pawn on the wrong side of the board.]

It is probably full of minor errors, but I am not sure where black is supposed to have gone wrong, maybe 7 ... Qc7 should be replaced by Qd7 or black should exchange with cxd4 somewhere. But in any case I quite liked my position, though to be honest I was also tempted to play 6 g4, which with hindsight is prolly not so good.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
yegonzo
Guest


Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #5 - 03/08/05 at 09:03:40
Post Tools
@ Paul Cumbers
Instead 10...Nxe5, 10...h6 "à la Benkö" (Arkell) may be an improvment ...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul Cumbers
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 175
Location: Grantham
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #4 - 02/25/05 at 10:09:03
Post Tools
Quote:
About 3... c5, in the latest NIC yearbook the plan with 4. c4/4. Nf3 is discussed and seems the new big threat for Black.  Undecided Check out the game Rublevsky-Asrian.

Thanks for this Smiley - White's plan of opening up the game with c4 looks very interesting. Black has lost a tempo by playing ...c6 and ...c5, so it makes sense.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lnn2
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: nc
Joined: 09/22/04
Re: Advance Caro-Kann 3...c5, 6.Qg4!?
Reply #3 - 02/22/05 at 04:35:56
Post Tools
About 3... c5, in the latest NIC yearbook the plan with 4. c4/4. Nf3 is discussed and seems the new big threat for Black.  Undecided Check out the game Rublevsky-Asrian.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo