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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope (Read 30685 times)
parisestmagique
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #58 - 10/08/08 at 14:53:08
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Rc5 is a very nice and creative idea, but do you agree that's it's incorrect from the theorical point of view ? Also 20... Qc7 is interesting.
I think i already see this Rc5 idea in an Internet article.
  
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Schroeder
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #57 - 07/22/08 at 23:40:27
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After 15.a3 the main line is Rab8 16.Bd3. Now black has a choice whether to play 16...b5, 16...Bc4 or even 16...a6.

a) 16...b5
This is one of the lines which at least made it into WWTD2, if even only as a small comment. After 17.Qg5! many often cited lines are known to be bad for black. The less known idea 17...Qd8, as given in WWTD2 seems to fail after 18.e5! according my analysis with similar lines as 17...Qc7 18.e5. If black wants to switch back to the 16...a6 line with 17...a6 and the idea of 18.Rh2?! Rc5! with a lot of counterplay, he has to reckon with 18.f4!


After 16.-b5 17.Qg5, I tried to revive the black side with the exchange sac 17.-Rc5!? 18.Bc5: dc 19.Qc5: Nd7 20.Qb4 Qb6 21.Nd5 Bd5: 22.ed Nc5 which had turned out well for Black in a game played in 2004:

23. Rh3 a5 24. Qf4 b4 25. a4 Nxa4 26. Rdh1 Nc3+ 27. Ka1 Nxd5 28.Qh2 f5 29. Rh8+ Bxh8 30. Qxh8+ Kf7 31. Qe5 Nf6 32. Bc4+ e6 33. Bxe6+ Kg7 34. g4 fxg4 35. fxg4 Re8 36. Re1 Qb8 37. Qd4 Qd8 38. Qe5 Qb8 39. Qd4 Qd8 40. Qc4 Qd6 41. Kb1 Nd7 42. g5 Ne5 43. Qh4 Qxe6 44. Qh6+ Kg8 45. Rh1 Nf7 46. Qh7+ Kf8 47.Rf1 Rd8 48. Qh4 Kg7 49. b3 Qe2 50. Qh1 Re8 51. Rd1 Rc8 52. Rc1 Qd2 53. Qh3 Qc3 54. Qe6 Rc6 55. Qe4 a4 56. Rf1 axb3 57. Rxf7+ Kxf7 58. Qd5+ Ke7 59. Qe4+ Kf8 60. Qf4+ Kg7 {0-1 Atakisi,U (2325)-Citak,S (2153)/Antalya 2004})

In my corr game I was surprised by 23.Bg6:!! (I could not believe that this can work, but it seems to win by force) 23... fxg6 24.d6! exd6 25. Qg4 b4 26. Qc4+ Kf8 27. Qf4+ Ke7 28. Rh7 Rg8 29. Re1+ Ne6 30. Qg4 d5 31. Qxg6 bxa3 32. Rxg7+ Rxg7 33. Qxg7+ Kd6
34. Rxe6+ Kxe6 35. Qg6+ Ke5 36. Qxb6 axb6 37. bxa3 1-0


Does anyone else have experiences with the exchange sac 17.-Rc5 ?
Is this line analysed in any dragon book?
« Last Edit: 07/23/08 at 20:18:06 by Schroeder »  
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Victor Reppert
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #56 - 11/23/04 at 12:02:44
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Yes Scholar I think u r right  Grin

This seems to be more a case of forgotten theory than home preparation.

On another matter, I found it surprising that noone has yet commented on the recent game Dominguez vs Kudrin, where Kudrin a Dragon expert in his own right tested the relatively untried 12...h5!? : 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 O-O 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.O-O-O Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11. Kb1 Qc7 12.h4 h5!?  The game was later drawn after many adventures. Strange that such a typical Dragon move  as 12...h5  hasn't been seen more of in this particular position.

Well then 12...h5!? looks like yet another avenue worth exploring, and it will be interesting to see if it has a future or whether 12...Rfc8 followed by 13...Qa5 will continue to hog the limelight.

Thoughts?

Top  Grin


Well, I've been looking at 13. Nd5 and it looks pretty good for White. ex. Bxd5 14. exd5 Rac8 15. g4 Nxd5 15. Bxg7 Kxg7 16. gh
Is there a better idea for Black?

Victor
  
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gringo_tt
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #55 - 08/11/04 at 13:02:15
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I think there is some good stuff in this h5 stuff to stunt white for a while..lol
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #54 - 06/23/04 at 18:17:19
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For the record Topnotch, someone did mention Kudrin playing 12...h5.  I believe it's about the third post on this page.   Grin
  
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #53 - 06/23/04 at 17:43:14
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12...h5 is not new at all. It seems that Kudrin's novelty was 14...Qa5, but even this position already occurred via another order of moves. Yes, ...h5 is a possible idea; Georgiev once used it in slighly different edition (against Istratescu, as I remember).
  
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TopNotch
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #52 - 06/23/04 at 17:06:13
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Yes Scholar I think u r right  Grin

This seems to be more a case of forgotten theory than home preparation.

On another matter, I found it surprising that noone has yet commented on the recent game Dominguez vs Kudrin, where Kudrin a Dragon expert in his own right tested the relatively untried 12...h5!? : 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 O-O 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.O-O-O Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11. Kb1 Qc7 12.h4 h5!?  The game was later drawn after many adventures. Strange that such a typical Dragon move  as 12...h5  hasn't been seen more of in this particular position.

Well then 12...h5!? looks like yet another avenue worth exploring, and it will be interesting to see if it has a future or whether 12...Rfc8 followed by 13...Qa5 will continue to hog the limelight.

Thoughts?

Top  Grin
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #51 - 06/20/04 at 00:11:20
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First off, 15. a3 Bc4 will transpose to the 'main line' after white captures the bishop - things will just happen one move faster (Black saves a move on Ra8-b8-c8, White on Bf1-d3xc4).  I don't see anything better for Black.  Maybe White can improve, but this doesn't seem so important.

Continuing after a3 with Rh3 (or maybe it was Rh2) is an old idea, I think, and probably what Williams was thinking of playing; in conjuction with omitting a3 it's probably just bad.  Williams-Webb looks to be a case where white just forgot the book (and wasn't aware of the latest theory).

I think that the consensus main line, and in particular Markovic's analysis still looks to be the last word on best play.
  
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #50 - 06/19/04 at 18:55:59
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Isn't White supposed to be playing 15.a3 to stop the tactics on a2?  At least it seems he should be playing it soon after 15.Bd3.  Although Black's ideas in the Williams-Webb game might be good in the 15.a3 Rab8 (Hasn't 15...Bc4 been refuted?) 16.Bd3 Bc4 variation.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #49 - 06/19/04 at 16:54:24
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I found the following game played this year really interesting. The result may have been a draw, but black should have won. I have not given this game the fine tooth comb treatment yet, but on the face of it Black's novelty 15...Bc4 definetly looks worthy of further investigation.  Grin

[Event "Portsmouth op"]
[Site "Portsmouth"]
[Date "2004.02.20"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Williams,Simon"]
[Black "Webb,Richard M"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "B76"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6 11.Kb1 Qc7 12.h4 Rfc8 13.h5 Qa5 14.hxg6 hxg6 15.Bd3 Bc4!? TN 16.Rh3 b5 17.Qg5 e5 18.Be3 Be6 19.g4 Rxc3 20.bxc3 Qa3 21.Rdh1 Bxa2+ 22.Ka1 Be6+ 23.Kb1 Ba2+ 24.Ka1 Bc4+ 25.Kb1 Bxd3 26.cxd3 Qb3+ 27.Kc1 Qxc3+ 28.Kd1 Qxd3+ 29.Ke1 Rc8 30.Kf2 Rc2+ 31.Kg3 Rc3 32.Re1 d5 33.Rh2 d4 34.Rd2 Qc4 35.Bg1 Qc8 36.Kg2 Qe8 37.Qh4 a5 38.Bh2 b4 39.f4 exf4 40.Bxf4 d3
41.Kg1 Qe6 42.Rg2 Rc2 43.Bd2 b3 44.e5 Qb6+ 45.Kh1 Nd7 46.Qe7 Nf8 47.Qd6 Qb5 48.e6 fxe6 49.Rf1 Qd5 50.Qf4 Qd7 51.Rgf2 b2 52.Qb8 Rc8 53.Qf4 Qb7+ 54.Kh2 b1=Q 55.Rxb1 Qxb1 56.Qf7+ Kh8 57.Kg3 Qg1+ 58.Kh3 Bd4 1/2

Could this possibly be a way forward for black?

Top Grin

  

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Fernando Semprun
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #48 - 05/21/04 at 01:45:55
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Well, yes, Kasparov mentioned to IM Victoriano Gallego on the Madrid tube (underground) that the Dragon was busted (they were both going to watch Real Madrid play), but I think there is a difference in playing Anand to playing my average opponent OTB.

I have beaten with a refuted Grunfeld line IM Llanos and Tea Boosbom-Lanchava, and draw against GM Pablo San Segundo and IM Paschall. Well, it was refuted by Gelfand in 1986, so nobody remembers...

Do you feel like more names?  Grin
  

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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #47 - 05/21/04 at 01:00:52
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Nice to know you care about my feelings TopNotch...That's sweet. Cheesy
  
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TopNotch
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #46 - 05/20/04 at 19:34:18
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U seem to luv dropping names  Grin

Are the NIC Year books cheaper in Spain than in the US.

Chess stuff seems to be more and more expensive these days. A cheaper source would be nice.

Maybe if I contributed some analysis to them I could get a few issues free, its worth a shot.

Nice to see your continued interest in the Dragon, but weren't you the  guy that announced that Kasparov said the Dragon was refuted and almost scared fellow poster Tommy Curry half to death.  Wink 

Some advice Semprun, u seem to like only razor sharp openings, play a few solid ones as well and watch your rating soar.

Good luck in your game.

Top  Grin
  

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Fernando Semprun
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #45 - 05/20/04 at 17:49:59
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Well, folks, amazing!

I have just received the last 4 NIC's and wandered what to do against the recommended 17.Be3 of Van der Wiel and bingo! it's all here. So I thought I would contribute my 2 cents...

Against 18.Qd3 I have (quickly) analysed the following...

18...Rc3 looks worthless

18...b5 (logical) 19.Na2 (otherwise ...b4 follows) and now 19...Qc7 was interesting but


19...Nd7! (to re-route the knight f6-d7-e5-c4)

Two main tries

a) 20. Bh6 Ne5 21. Qe2 Bh8 22. Nb4 Nc4 23.Qc1 Qa4 24.g4 Bg7 and if anyone is interested I'll give more moves

b) 20.Bd4 Ne5 21.Be5 Be5 22.Nb4 Rc3

and this position deserves a diagram!



Well, from dead lost to rising from the grave!!

And I still don't play the dragon! (But may do this Saturday against Vallejo!)
« Last Edit: 05/21/04 at 01:34:01 by Fernando Semprun »  

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Glenn Snow
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Re: 9.0-0-0 - A Critical Line Under The Microscope
Reply #44 - 05/09/04 at 01:23:06
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You're absolutely right!  Hopefully good play can be found for Black against 18.Qxd3 as well.  At least White's queen has been distracted for a couple of moves from getting to g5 or h6.
  
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