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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3 (Read 14235 times)
kylemeister
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #13 - 09/25/13 at 23:08:47
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I notice that in a Yearbook article on 3...d5 4. dc a few years ago, Panczyk and Ilczuk thought Black had "nothing to be afraid of" with 4...e6 5. b4 a5.
  
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Aziridine
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #12 - 09/25/13 at 22:45:20
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I think 3...d5 is being dismissed too quickly here. I've always wondered about the position after 4.dxc5 e6 5.b4 a5 6.e3 axb4 7.cxb4 b6 8.Bb5+ Bd7 9.Bxd7+ Nbxd7 10.a4 bxc5 11.b5, which isn't exactly a reversed Noteboom. Here Black hasn't gained the bishop pair, but he's up a tempo compared to White's analogous position in the Noteboom, since there Black already has the bishop on b7. I don't know if there's been serious analysis done in this line (it's received some testing in corr. play) - can Black get some play with ...c4 and ...Nc5, for example, to make use of the knight. In any case, I imagine a Benoni player who enjoys getting unbalanced pawn structures might do better here than a white player who only has experience playing a London or Colle structure.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #11 - 09/25/13 at 21:43:31
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Keano wrote on 09/25/13 at 14:06:56:
I would go 3...e6 allowing a Torre or London but thats just me.


Aveskulov in "Attack with black" share this opinion. I think this book provides no-nonsence answers to most of whites off-beat tries. The repertoaire is a bit classic though, meaning grabbing the centre if you get the chance. So no early  ...Qa5 or ...Qc7. I guess black is OK, but a bit of knowledge and patience needed.

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Keano
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #10 - 09/25/13 at 14:06:56
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I would go 3...e6 allowing a Torre or London but thats just me.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #9 - 09/24/13 at 23:01:10
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Both 3...Qa5 and 3...Qc7 are interesting and score quite well.
Unfortunately these moves aren't mentioned in any books I know.
The sequence 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 is not covered by Cox or Avrukh in their d-pawn books, for example.

3...Qc7 is briefly mentioned by Alejandro Ramirez on his second Benko DVD, but he doesn't give any lines.

I like this move, because at least it makes London players think for a moment - no Bf4 on auto-pilot.   Wink
After 4.e3 Black can play some kind of reverse Semi-Slav or Catalan and should be ok.
In most cases White plays 4.g3 or 4.Bg5 (or even 4.dxc5), but there is hardly any established theory. Does anybody know more about these lines? Should Black in general continue with structures like g6/Bg7/d6 or d5/e6?

Maybe I will give 3...Qa5 a try, although 3...Qc7 looks more flexible to me. Isn't the queen better placed on c7 in reverse Slavs or Catalans?

  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #8 - 05/22/09 at 16:42:18
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Markovich wrote on 05/22/09 at 12:10:03:
While I wouldn't particularly fear the Exchange if I were a Slav player, I'm not sure that I would play right into it in this case.  Surely Black must have something more dynamic?  3...g6 for example?  Obviously, 3...e6 is sound.


1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 c6 3. g3 Nf6 4. Bg2 dxc4 is =, which is the exact position reversed.

However, I wouldn't try 3...g6, sine black is trying to regain that pawn a tempo down on an equal line when the board is flipped.

3...Qa5 could be followed by ...g6, however.
  

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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #7 - 05/22/09 at 12:10:03
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While I wouldn't particularly fear the Exchange if I were a Slav player, I'm not sure that I would play right into it in this case.  Surely Black must have something more dynamic?  3...g6 for example?  Obviously, 3...e6 is sound.
  

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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #6 - 05/22/09 at 08:53:48
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If Black has the Slav in his Black repertoire, then the simplest solution is 3...cd4 4.cd4 d5 with an equal position. Even if Black doesn't play the Slav, I would recommend this option as the theory of the Exchange Slav is not too detailed, and it offers plenty of scope to play for a win if Black is patient and creative.

Alternatively, 3...cd4 4.cd4 b6!? looks playable and interesting as well, playing in similar fashion to a Queen's Indian.
  

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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #5 - 05/20/09 at 07:12:47
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I rather like 3...Qa5!? intending to go into the g6/Bg7 structures if possible.

It's unorthodox, but I think the idea of defending ...c5, and making possible an imbalancing of the pawn structure due to the pin is good. It has the main point of solving all dxc5 problems while maintaining a fluid structure.

I don't think white's unambitious play can punish it out right, and it seems to do alright in practice.
  

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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #4 - 03/24/05 at 14:16:45
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In the d-Pawn Specials section at ChessPublishing.com, Aaron Summerscale gave 3...d5 as equalising immediately for Black, but didn't provide any supporting evidence. Interestingly, Eric Prié says that after 3...d5 [by transposition], 4.dxc5 is "The only way to try and gain some advantage from the opening." But after 4...e6 5.b4 a5 6.e3 axb4 7.cxb4 b6 8.Bb5+ Bd7 9.Bxd7+ Nbxd7 10.a4 bxc5 11.b5, the position looks unclear. So 3...d5 seems like a good bet, but I'd still like to know what Black should do against 4.e3/g3/Bf4/Bg5!

With 3...g6, I'd be slightly nervous about 4.dxc5 - can Black recover the pawn or get compensation if White tries to hold on to it? Undecided

As for 3...e6, White has 4.e3 (Colle) as well as 4.Bg5 (Torre) when the early c3 shouldn't matter too much. [Although Richard may disagree! Grin]

Looking at this another way, assuming Black would like to play a Modern Benoni, is there any reason to prefer 2...c5 over 2...e6 (after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3)? If White can force a transposition into ...e6 lines with 3.c3 (or 3.e3 for that matter), then Black might as well play ...e6 on move 2 and avoid the sharp 2...c5 3.d5!? when Black may have problems equalising (e.g. 3...e6 4.Nc3; or 3...b5 4.Bg5).
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #3 - 10/01/04 at 06:37:58
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3...g6 looks like a reasonable Torre; 3...e6 may also not be so bad or dull. After 4 Bg5 we've reached a Torre, but with white committed to an early c3 (although Hebden does play like this). Then 4...Qb6 is one interesting try, whilst I recall Karpov winning a neat miniature in this line as black several years ago.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #2 - 09/30/04 at 18:41:32
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Thanks for the informative and interesting response.  I think I actually like the transposition to the Torre after 3...g6 4.Bg5 with White committed to c3 instead of c4.  Of course Black is committed to ...c5 but I think this might be the setup that leads to the most active play while still giving equality.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
Reply #1 - 09/30/04 at 07:11:50
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I am one of those chicken who has regurlary employed this with white Embarrassed though I stopped it lately.
An exchange slav (3...cxd4) is exactly white´s aim and so is a transposition to the torre (3...e6/3...g6 4.Bg5). And 3...b6!? 4.dxc5! bxc5 5.e4 += is really nice for white. The same is 3...d5!? 4.dxc5! e6 5.b4 when white cannot keep the pawn but reaches a reversed noteboom with an important extra move. I had most problems facing 3...Qa5 (or even 3...Qc7): white should play a reversed semi-slav with 4.e3/5.dxc5/6.b4/7.Bb2 but this is not "his structure". Of course everything is possible after 3...Qa5!?
Objectivly 3...cxd4 and 3...e6 may be the best answers.
  
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Glenn Snow
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1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3
09/30/04 at 06:12:10
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In other posts we've discussed how to enliven things up after other anti-benoni systems.  Anybody have any thoughts on how to counter the tedious 3.c3?  Of course the exchange Slav is possible and I've seen a lot of Queen's Indian setups for Black, but what's the most aggressive and sound way forward for Black?
  
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