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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C11: The Burn with Bxf6 (Read 10750 times)
tony37
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Re: C11: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #26 - 08/31/13 at 23:22:31
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that looks like a logical explanation
  
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Papageno
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Re: C11: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #25 - 08/31/13 at 21:21:26
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Most likely this was just blindness by the person who entered the moves of the game into Chessbase. While most humans play 6.Bxf6+ Bxf6 7.Nf3, the Chessbase "HEUristic Move Assistant" erroneously assumes 6.Nxf6 as the most likely move. Which might have slipped into the databases.
  
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tony37
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Re: C11: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #24 - 08/31/13 at 20:16:25
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I have just a weird observation, too unimportant to start a new thread:
after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4 5.Nxe4 Be7 6.Nxf6+ Bxf6 I can find four games that continued 7.Nf3?? and not one of them (of which someone rated 2438) continued 7...Bxg5
fourfold mutual blindness
  
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Ormechea
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #23 - 02/04/05 at 20:06:59
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The burn is neat to me because i play Moros idea with a6 then b5 and Bb7 with the night going to d7 its a doubkle edged system
  
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #22 - 02/04/05 at 11:27:00
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I'm sure it's me, but I just don't like the Burn.  If I'm going to play 3 ... dxe4, I'd rather play 1 ... c6 and not have my light-squared bishop locked in.  What I like about the French is the tension Black can build up on White's center.  The Burn's solid, but I'd prefer a Caro any day of the week.
  

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Ormechea
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #21 - 02/03/05 at 22:11:23
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I play Nf6 and somtimes Be7 either way you can get somting familiar with the burn formation somthign i would love anytime i play the french because its where im most comfortable.
  
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #20 - 02/03/05 at 21:37:57
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After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3/d2 dxe4 4.Nxe4 I have found more than 1100 games with 4...Nf6. In more than 300 games White played 5.Bg5. Not that I like Black's opening play.
  

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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #19 - 02/03/05 at 08:39:31
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Hmm ... White has to be quite obliging, for the Rubinstein to transpose to the Burn, doesn't he?  I mean, after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4, what do you do?  I can't think of too many lines in the Rubinstein where White meets ...Nf6 with Bg5.
  

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Ormechea
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #18 - 02/03/05 at 08:31:38
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i play the Rubenstein to transpose into a burn Smiley because i dont like the steinitz variation of the french. It scares me. I know it shouldnt but i makes me feel uncomfortable. Does any one like Moros line with gxf6. I play this my self and have had good results with it against the computer and other wise. People think its weak alot of the time because of the hole in the kingside but what a lot of people dont know is you can castle king side if you cna keep the center closed because it is rather difficult to attack wit hthe pawn complex.
  
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Tzanidakis_Michael
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #17 - 01/20/05 at 00:04:24
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The big difference is: with the French you can follow up with .. c5, while in the Philidor you do not get to play ... f5 so easily.

Therefore, in the former case, it is likely that a knight landing on e5 necessarily feels shaky of its post, while in the latter a knight landing on d5 cannot be disloged so easily.



I agree with you of course. I brought French as an example cause both positions are solid but you cannot have great expectations from those variations. And of course Rubinstein variation is better (or more precisely faster, more solid and easier in general) than Philidor's for the reasons you said, that's why it's more popular.
  
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #16 - 01/19/05 at 20:16:01
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You mean what's the point of exchanging exd4 if you have supported it with d6? It's true that exd4 is a bit passive and it looks like dxe4 in the Rubinstein variation of the French.


The big difference is: with the French you can follow up with .. c5, while in the Philidor you do not get to play ... f5 so easily.

Therefore, in the former case, it is likely that a knight landing on e5 necessarily feels shaky of its post, while in the latter a knight landing on d5 cannot be disloged so easily.

  
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Tzanidakis_Michael
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #15 - 01/19/05 at 14:13:00
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First of all the rating of the computer was only about 16XX Undecided 


End of discussion  Wink

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My friend played the philidor agaisnt me and played that line one which i was not prepared for becasue what the hell is the point of supporting it with d6

You mean what's the point of exchanging exd4 if you have supported it with d6? It's true that exd4 is a bit passive and it looks like dxe4 in the Rubinstein variation of the French. In my opinion, the only reasonable try for exd4 is to follow up with g6, an idea I sometimes play.
  
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Ormechea
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #14 - 01/19/05 at 11:42:39
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First of all the rating of the computer was only about 16XX Undecided at the time not unleashed. Second of all its hard to beat a computer for sure but once you realize that you can play aginst one who plays for tactics sure you know it will win more often than not in an open game and the same with a human mind across from you the goal of the opening is to reach a playable middle game. This can be demonstrated best by a certain Emanuel Lasker and Mikhail Tal who often did not play the best move but the psychologically best move. Somthing that can crush a players home prepartion. In the Michigan Class I had spent a couple of months on home prepartion in my opening selection. I play a Kings Pawn and went over a few lines of th philidor. One i dismissed was the exchage where after playing d6 black trades off his e pawn. My friend will played the philidor agaisnt me and played that line one which i was not prepared for becasue what the hell is the point of supporting it with d6. I got nervous and made a serious blunder and lost the game. Same applies to any opening though when you catch some one off guard they are more likely to be hurt than if you play somthing there familiar with. Common Sense. My friend NN in a few games later let me play the same line again only this time he was ready with some home analysis and we had a slightly better for white game going which i flagged. By no means was it lost .

paling agaisnt a computer is intstrutional. My friend atteh club NN has a very strong positional understanding he recentley took part in the michigan open and took a few expert scalps with only a 17XX rating. Im not sure what the elo equivelent of my rating is im not familiar with the system as a comparison the highest rated player in michigan one ben finegold is h high 2600. So my rating is low.

I was going to post my games on my first post but my kid borther formated the computer while i was a way for the weekend and all my database work and home preparation was lost. Now im thinking of getting a Zip drive. Maybe i can pull together a few more games with the white washed AI though. A new chance and ill be sure to plug in the gambit lined you mentioned for counter play in the center. I think that may have been one of the lines fritz tried.
  
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #13 - 01/19/05 at 06:12:14
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Show us the game(s). Note however, most computers can be set at different levels. Beating the easy levels is certainly possible even for someone 997 Fide. At the mid strength level I would agree with alumbrado, unless someone gave the computer 1 minute and himself 2 hours and the computer couldn't use a an opening book. At above mid strength...Show us the games!!! Smiley
  
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alumbrado
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Re: The Burn with Bxf6
Reply #12 - 01/19/05 at 04:42:37
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OK, I know about book learning - you are saying that the computer simply didn't play this line with Black any more.  That, I understand.

What I don't understand is how a player rated <1000 beats Fritz even once, let alone 3/3 ...
  

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