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Poll Question: What do you think about the Smith Morra Gambit
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Fun to play but unsound    
  38 (22.1%)
A line that is for a reawakining    
  8 (4.7%)
Bad for white     
  21 (12.2%)
ok for white    
  55 (32.0%)
good for white    
  10 (5.8%)
Ive never seen a smith-morra    
  5 (2.9%)
all right if you know what your doing    
  35 (20.3%)




Total votes: 172
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Smith-Morra (Read 84282 times)
eggman
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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #46 - 03/16/14 at 20:57:57
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Howdy,

I'm rated at a modest 1800 (US Chess Federation) and enjoy gambits, especially the Blackmar-Diemer. I've been using the SM Gambit for skittles and occasionally OTB for over 20 years.
I consider the SM and even the much-maligned Blackmar-Diemer no less "sound" than the King's Gambit-an opening which seems to enjoy more approval. Many overlook the fact that fighting, center gambits are inherently risky. Admittedly, I regard the Evans as probably the soundest of the "Romantic" gambits, but that's another discussion. MHO and YMMV.
  

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MNb
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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #45 - 07/27/07 at 20:47:42
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Possible, I don't know exactly. After 3...g6 4.Nf3 d3 Black has the 3...d3 variation, but limited White's options.
  

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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #44 - 07/27/07 at 06:27:06
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MnB wrote: Quote:
The Morra Gambit only works against unprepared opponents; as soon as Black has prepared 3...Nf6 or 3...d5 3...d3 or even 3...g6 White should rather exactly know what to do. I say this after about 10 years experience.


Doesn`t 3...g6 meet 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Bc4 and force black into a fianchetto defence against the accepted Morra, or 5..d3? White is threatening cxd as d7-d5 is not available.

5..e6 is an option, but I don`t like the looks of it.
  

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MNb
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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #43 - 07/27/06 at 14:23:23
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Instead of exchanging and repeating their opinions Dji and Meat should start the fight after 6...a6 7.Bg5. I would welcome another interesting game like Ostapbender - Smyslov_Fan. Come on, guys!
In case Uberdeker choses the Fianchetto, I have some ideas for Black after 7.e5. It's dubious reputation might not be deserved.

PS I stand corrected by Dji. The defence with Nge7 WITHOUT d6 should also be on the list of recommendations.
« Last Edit: 07/28/06 at 01:13:58 by MNb »  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Meat
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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #42 - 07/27/06 at 13:12:05
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So where is the white advantage after 9. Nh4?

Most of the games in my database went 9... e6 10. 0-0 and now one possibility is 10...f5 11. Qh5 fxe4 12. Nxe4 d5 13. Ng5 and black can defend with Qf6 and Be7.
So how does white win here? Am I missing something tactical?
And there are other possibilities at move 10 for black, like 10...Bd7 or even 10...Rg8. How to get the advantage against those?
  
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Dragonslayer
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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #41 - 07/27/06 at 12:59:09
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MNb wrote on 07/27/06 at 05:13:17:
A better question is this one. Why play this gambit (2.d4), that requires about as much theoretical knowledge as the main line (there are transpositions to the Caro-Kann Panov Attack, the Franco Benoni, the QGA and the Semi-Tarrasch; Black can even defend in Gurgenidze style), leaves Black a wider choice, offers White no choice and does not give sharper play than the main line (2.Nf3 and 3.d4) ? Imo the Morra Gambit is just not a practical choice and that's why Dragonslayer - if I understand him correctly - and I have given it up.


I haven't actually given it up completely. It's still very usefull for rapid games and whenever I meet one of those boring 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 guys who thinks their last name is Kan or Taimanov  Smiley .
If you play 2.Nf3 and 3.d4 you will have to play against: Najdorf, Scheveningen, Dragon, acc. dragon, pseudo dragon, Sveshnikov, Kalashnikov, Four knights, pin variation, Hedgehog, Kan/Taimanov, Paulsen, ...Qb6 lines, ...Bc5 lines etc. These variations represent a lot of different styles and carry a huge amount of theory. I like to have at least one way of annoying Black...

So I will join Ben's team!
I have played the Morra since 1992 a total of 43 times in normal and rapid games with a score of 62% (+22 = 9 -12)
  
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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #40 - 07/27/06 at 12:22:41
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The line ou given was already propose by all box and maybe others and a concrete answer was found by charles_G (reply #16):
   6...a6 7.Bg5 Nf6 8.Bxf6 gf6 9.Nh4 with withe advantage if you don't agree propose other moves
  In your post (reply#35) you give  no concrete lines .

Have you seen a monkey?
Dji

  

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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #39 - 07/27/06 at 11:13:03
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Quote:
In the line 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6  AGAIN  PLEASE READ REPLY # 16 charles-G


Ah, there's nothing more convincing than adding a '!' to a move and claiming an edge without giving any further analysis.
I don't have the time to do a research on 7. Bg5 right mow, but it doesn't look very impressive to me at first sight.
As Monk uses to say: "I could be wrong now, but you know... I'm not!"  Wink
  
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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #38 - 07/27/06 at 10:59:59
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Black should consider:
  4...g6 5.Nf3 Bg7 6.Bc4 Nc6 7.e5!  The Fianchetto variante is now considered very dubious for black!
The line 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 e6 7.0-0 Nf6 8.Qe2 a6 9.Rd1 Qc7 10.Bf4 Be7 is solid but doesn't worry  to much because  withe can play for the draw
11.Rac1 0-0 12.Bb3 Qb8 13.Na4 b5! (Nd7 14.Qd2)14.Rxc6 bxa4 15.Bxa4 Bd7 (or Bb7 16.Rc4 = NUNN ; 16.Nd4!? ) 16.Rc4 Bb5 17.Bb5 ab5 18.Rb4 Rxa2 =
Or try for more with 11.Rac1 0-0 12.h3!?
In the line 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6  AGAIN  PLEASE READ REPLY # 16 charles-G

As IM christoph Wisnewski pointed out in this topic, the set up with Nge7 is the most interessant for black  but NOT with a pawn on d6 , the bishop often go on c5 after the king kniqht move on g6. This is the critical line these last years. I have some ideas but there is plenty of move order so difficult  to wrote more...

Otherwise in the Finegold variation
  4.Nxc3 d6 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bc4 Nf6 7.0-0 a6 8.Qe2 Nbd7!? 9.Rd1 b5  white play 10.e5 with very good compensation! 
Dji
  

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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #37 - 07/27/06 at 05:13:17
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OstapBender wrote on 07/26/06 at 20:10:35:
This is great!  It looks like we have a potential game thread brewing between Ben_Hague and Uberdeker!  One of you two should start a new thread in the Anti-Sicilians section and it's probably also a good idea to post an announcement in the Discussion section to help draw in a larger audience.

I look forward to the start of this game.


Guess what? I will surprise everybody and especially Überdeker by joining his team. There are a couple of reasons for this.

1. "White will always stand worse. Our friend MNb has expressed his disagreement on several occasions." Very onesided. On those several occasions I have explained, why I do not recommend the Morra Gambit. See also the end of this post.

2. "being a pawn down with no propects of retreiving it and an insufficiently active position" It is exactly this kind of overoptimism, that has brought me (and I suppose also Ben Hague) quite a few wins. Somebody has to cool Überdeker down a bit or I predict disaster for him. That "want to get similar positions without dropping a pawn" quote is another fine example. There are so many MG games, in which White wins because of an invasion along the c-file ...

3. Ben Hague is a very experienced and successfull MG-player. We have to restore the balance a bit.

4. Just like my hero I do not only play gambits - sometimes I defend them.

So let me shorten the list of refutations of our dear Überdeker a bit.
Not recommended:
4...e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 b5.
All defences which rely on e6-e5.
The Chicago Defence (a6, b5, Ra7).
The Siberian Trap (Nc6, e6, Nf6, Qc7).
The Leonidov Attack (4...Nc6 5.Nf3 g6 6.h4!).
Scheveningen Defence (Nc6, e6, d6) with an early Bd7.
Scheveningen Defence with Qa5.
Variations with Bc5 or Bb4.
Variations with Nge7 without d6.

Should be considered:
The Fianchetto Defence (4...g6 5.Nf3 Bg7 6.Bc4 Nc6).
The defence a la Taimanov (4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 e6 7.o-o Nge7)
The defence a la Najdorf/Scheveningen (4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 e6 7.o-o Be7 - avoids setups with Bg5 - 8.Qe2 a6 9.Rd1 Qc7 10.Bf4 Nf6).
The striving for Bg4 defence (4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6).

"But it certainly makes sense to ask a Morra player why he shouldn't  dramatically reduce his repertoire while chucking the most unsound components by simply playing 2. c3 or 2. Ktf3/3. c3."
This question, already asked by Pachman more than 20 years ago, also has been answered since a couple of decade. With the Morra Gambit White avoids the boring 1.e4 c5 2.c3 d5 3.exd5 Qxd5 4.d4 lines as Black already has captured on d4.
A better question is this one. Why play this gambit (2.d4), that requires about as much theoretical knowledge as the main line (there are transpositions to the Caro-Kann Panov Attack, the Franco Benoni, the QGA and the Semi-Tarrasch; Black can even defend in Gurgenidze style), leaves Black a wider choice, offers White no choice and does not give sharper play than the main line (2.Nf3 and 3.d4) ? Imo the Morra Gambit is just not a practical choice and that's why Dragonslayer - if I understand him correctly - and I have given it up.

With good preparation and very accurate play Überdeker might survive the opening with a tiny edge - provided he choses one of the defences I recommend. Even then I am not sure, if Black can prove more than equality. But unlike Überdeker I do not consider that as a victory for White.
Also looking forward to the game.
  

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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #36 - 07/26/06 at 21:38:40
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These a lot of repetition !

So Meat look at Reply #16 (and #26 sorry Charles!)
Dji
  

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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #35 - 07/26/06 at 20:40:18
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I use to play Gallagher's line with d6, a6 Nf6 and Bg4. Since I do so I haven't lost a single game against the Morra and never got bad positions. I don't know what theory gives as white's best try here, but I'd be suprised if he had a convincing answer to this system.
You can certainly crush unprepared opponents with it, but against accurate defence I think white is simply in trouble. After all he sacrifices a pawn for only a few tempi, and not some random pawn but a central one!
  
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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #34 - 07/26/06 at 20:10:35
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This is great!  It looks like we have a potential game thread brewing between Ben_Hague and Uberdeker!  One of you two should start a new thread in the Anti-Sicilians section and it's probably also a good idea to post an announcement in the Discussion section to help draw in a larger audience.

I look forward to the start of this game.
  

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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #33 - 07/26/06 at 19:48:20
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If anyone wants a game in the Morra I'd be happy to take on the White side. This sort of correspondence type chess isn't my best form of chess by a long way, I seem to need a bit more adrenaline to get the thought processes working properly. However I have been playing the Morra since 1989 (131 games, w 89 d 25 l 17) so I do know something about the opening. If anyone is interested I assume the starting position would be after 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 ?
  
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Re: Smith-Morra
Reply #32 - 07/26/06 at 16:46:36
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I play against the Morra an a6 + e6 + b5 + Bb7 + d6 + Nf6 setup and scored fine with it in the past. But last week I got crushed by a player who sacrificed after advancing to e5 and my answer d5 with Bxd5 - according to FRITZ I still was better after his Morra-typical sacrifice, but I lost then the game in a tactical battle and since then I am asking myself if it wouldnt be better to play Bd7 instead of b5 + Bb7 and safe one tempo ???
  
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