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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?) (Read 8750 times)
John Simmons
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #12 - 07/06/05 at 10:54:43
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Hello,

Doing an "analysis" by grade in online database, 2500+ players accept gambit and play Ng-e7, i.e as in a game of Conquest, . 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 Nc6 6Bc4 a6 70.0 Ng-e7 8.Bg5 f6.

4...d5 only sells at the 2100 level, so probably not a good idea. In the equilvalent 2.c3 sicillian line with e6, black usually delays c5*d4. Not sure on the precise reason for this.
          If black is very keen on declining gambit, then can try 4...d3. There are some positons where c3 and nd2, are better than nc3 for white.
          With the english attack against Scheveningen setup, black has options for early d5, as well as the more familar a6 setup. Why english attack plan can work against Taimanov, no d6, setups I haven't worked out yet.

Bye John S

  
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MNb
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #11 - 06/26/05 at 21:37:49
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1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3 Nf6 5.e5 is a main line Alapin.
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3? Nf6 5.e5 dxe5 is not.
  

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andrew voss
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #10 - 06/26/05 at 09:17:55
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That said what is so bad about ...Nf6. 5.e5 followed by 6.cxd4 seems good enough to me. If the knight goes to d5 then Nc3 and Bc4 present problems .

If you could help me out and give an explanation as to why ...Nf6! is busting then I would love to hear it.
  
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MNb
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #9 - 06/23/05 at 21:52:18
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1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3? is wrong because of Nf6!

After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 Black can play one of the many, many good defenses. See some other threads on the Morra.
"if you could force someone to play something like e6 then it would be good."
Don't be too optimistic.

"Honestly, it doesn't matter how it is spelled or said."
You'd rather not say that to an inhabitant of Scheveningen.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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andrew voss
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #8 - 06/23/05 at 17:26:51
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Honestly, it doesn't matter how it is spelled or said. To answer the question posed to me I play 3.d4 4.Nxd4 with either 6.Be3 or 6.Bc4. I usually play the open sicilian and wanted to surprise a gentleman at the local club that plays 2...e6 trying to throw me off. If I am not mistaken though it wouldn't be helpful to play 4.c3 against 2...d6 as it is a line that is now becoming bad for white. I was under the impression that the morra gambit was no longer being used because of ...d6 instead of ...e6 and if you could force someone to play something like it then it would be good.
  
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alumbrado
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #7 - 06/21/05 at 12:06:15
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If I remember correctly, the 'sch' sound is hard in Dutch (like 'sk', as in 'skill' only more 'throaty'), whereas in German it is soft, as in 'Fischer'.  Also, the g is more like a click in the back of the throat than a hard German g.  But it has been a while since I felt that pinch to my arm ... or the more appealing alternative  Undecided

To be honest, though, the pinches were more frequent - especially the first time she heard me say 'Wijk aan Zee' ...
  

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MNb
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #6 - 06/21/05 at 11:30:20
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I am curious to hear you pronounce "Scheveningen".

From May 10th until May 14th 1940 The Netherlands had to defend against the German invasion. There were a lot of rumours of German soldiers wearing Dutch uniforms. The ultimate test to decide if a soldier was Dutch or German was to let him pronounce "Scheveningen".
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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alumbrado
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #5 - 06/21/05 at 06:56:24
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Quote:
Scheveningen is a village near Den Haag near the North Sea beach. So I thought it approprate, that someone else - an Englishman for instance - should correct it.
I had an unfair advantage - I dated a Dutch girl for a while and she used to tease me about my mis-spelling and mispronunciation of such things.  She used a form of aversion therapy to correct me: she would pinch me if I got something wrong, but I would get a 'reward' when I got it right.  I still miss her ...
  

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MNb
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #4 - 06/21/05 at 06:45:23
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4...d5 5.exd5 exd5
Does not this transpose to a French Tarrasch?
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 c5 4.exd5 exd5 5.Ngf3 and Black often plays cxd4 somewhere, while c3 is a common move for White.

Anyone interested in the correct spelling of the 2... e6/ 5... d6 setup can find it in a good atlas. Scheveningen is a village near Den Haag near the North Sea beach. So I thought it approprate, that someone else - an Englishman for instance - should correct it.
Of course the principle continuation for Black is to accept the pawn; White's equality has to been proven yet - see some other threads.
I wonder how AV wants to avoid the Scheveningen after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 ? Here 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3? definitely is not a good idea because of Nf6!

Final thought: if AV does not mind the Tarrasch type of anti-IQP play, why not 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c3 then? Maybe because of d5 4.exd5 Qxd5 5.d4 and Black is not obliged to exchange on d4 ?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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alumbrado
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #3 - 06/21/05 at 04:54:40
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I agree with Andy that this looks like a good IQP position for White.

If Black is looking to avoid the Morra (and it should be said, he is perfectly entitled to accept the gambit), the best way to do it in this move order is surely to play (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3) 4...Nf6! and transpose to the 2.c3 lines, with White committed to an early d2-d4 (which increasingly the c3-specialists are avoiding).

Where I do not agree with Andy is his view that the English Attack has been proven += ... but that is another story, not for this thread.

By the way - and it is surprising that the Dutchman ( MNb) who replied previously has not seen fit to correct the spelling - I think you probably meant 'Scheveningen'.
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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andy voss
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #2 - 06/21/05 at 00:17:37
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it seems though that in your variation
6 Nxd4 blockading the isolated queen pawn should be good with the possibility of Qb3 attacking d5 and b7 with ideas of Be2-f3 or g3 and Bg2 and Nd2-f1-e3 . Be3 sufficiently guards the knight against Nc6. I think that it looks +=. What does anyone else think?
  
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MNb
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Re: morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
Reply #1 - 06/18/05 at 22:03:11
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From White's point of view 4...d5 5.exd5 exd5 is not so appealing ....
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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andrew voss
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morra gambit in the schvennigan (spelling?)
06/18/05 at 00:54:30
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I was wondering since I don't have a database of games if the move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 Nc6 and then you enter the older Smith Morra where the position is sharp but chances are equal. This would avoid having to learn a bunch of theory of the english attack even though it is proven to be +=.

What do you think? Help?
  
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