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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C00-C19: I am a typical Open games player (Read 12105 times)
castlerock
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #45 - 02/15/06 at 03:55:45
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Sorry everybody but i'll reply in french in this particular post.


Now, I clearly understand what you had to say! Grin
  

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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #44 - 02/14/06 at 23:24:31
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Bonjour à Photophore et très content de te retrouver sur ce forum.
Sorry everybody but i'll reply in french in this particular post.

Pour tes questions, 4.e5 est stratégiquement justifié, les blancs veulent profiter de l'absence du fou de cases noires pour peser sur l'aile roi avec Dg4, mais cette sortie de la dame n'est possible que si le centre a été préalablement fermé (sans quoi les noirs égalisent très vite). Une idée qui n'a pas du tout été mentionné et que je pratique avec succès est de jouer 4.e5 c5 5.Qg4!? Ne7 6.dxc5. Cette ligne est très intéressante, elle mène a des positions assez ouvertes où les blancs n'ont pas à souffrir de la paralysie de leur aile dame (leurs pions y sont faibles mais mobiles, les fous ont du champ). Cette ligne est assez peu connue et sous-estimée, les bonnes directions pour les noirs ne sont pas clairement identifiées. Bref c'est impeccable pour un test en JPC !  Wink
  
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dom
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #43 - 02/11/06 at 11:09:08
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Hello 8arms,
I think we mix our posts with photophore posts...
Yes 4....Qxd5 is an alternative, but it's more easy to remember as a system with Qxd5-b6-Bb7.

4..Qxd5 5.Nf3! (other moves are harmless, but one analysis bust be carefully done about 5.Qg4 attacking g7 pawn: 5...Nc6 6.Nf3 Kf8 7.Bd2 Bxc3 8.bxc3 e5 9.Qh4 Bf5 10.c4 Qe4 11.Qxe4 Bxe4 12.d5 += Gelfer-Czerniak,Israel 1980 (Kuligowski)) b6 (5...Bd7!? Kuzmin with the idea to play Bb5 doesn't seems to be a good idea. Razuvayev-Kuzmin,Baku 1972 (Psakhis). I can only sum up with the idea that after Bxc3-bxc3 White has moving pawns in the center and Black can't stop the space advantage)  and I have only one referenced game Malbran-Gurevich,Philadelphie 1989 (Psakhis) where Black echanged dark-square bishop.
  

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8arms
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #42 - 02/10/06 at 13:31:48
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Just a side-line to what was said at the top of this page from @SmyslovFan regarding

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.ed5 ed5 5.Qf3!?

... another interesting move in this sequence is 4... Qxd5!?

@dom, is there some background to this move at all (or anybody else)?
  
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photophore
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #41 - 02/10/06 at 12:30:36
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Here are the first moves of my game : after , it's a technical matter
1 e4 e6
2 d4 d5
3 Nc3 Bb4
4 Bd3 dxe4
5 Bxe4 c5
6 a3 Bxc3+
7 bxc3 Nf6
8 Bf3 Qa5
9 Ne2 cxd4
10 O-O e5
11 Qd3 dxc3
12 Bg5 e4
13 Qe3 Qb6
14 Nd4 O-O
15 Rfb1 Qd6
16 Nb5 Qc6
17 Bxf6 Qxf6
18 Bxe4 Nc6
19 Qxc3 Qe7
20 Bxc6 bxc6
21 Qxc6
And obviously W is better ; whether it's a win or a draw is still open
  
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mad_knight
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #40 - 11/12/05 at 07:50:09
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On 10/15/05, TalJechin wrote:
Quote:
In the Winawer white has some other tries too, keeping the game less closed than after 4.e5. For example Hector's favourite 4.Ne2 - which theoretically isn't feared by black, but *every time* I see him play it seems so incredibly easy to beat the french!   

I'm a bit surprised nobody took TalJechin up on this one since it's considered one of the more popular of the 4th move alternatives against the Winawer and tends to keep the game open.  Chesslab.com stats are an impressive 43/28/29 (W wins/loses/draws)...

Unfortunately, the URL given for the Hector-Lyrberg game led me nowhere, but I found the game via another URL:
http://www.schackforum.se/Partier/Elitmalmo0503.html
Try it and you'll discover the sort of game an Open player just yearns for! Grin

TalJechin:  thanks for bringing this up.  Any interesting litterature, comments, games? I have John Watson's Play the French but of course it's a repertoire book for Black Angry
  

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basqueknight
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #39 - 10/25/05 at 22:19:00
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Photophore,

Without responding directly to your question I'd like to point out a rather curious suggestion by Bent Larsen:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.ed5 ed5 5.Qf3!?

In effect, this is an exchange French rather than a Winawer, but Larsen showed some nice tactics to justify it.  It's not considered very dangerous today but I bet it would score well in blitz or against a player who only knows a few lines of the French well.

(BTW, playing an early e5 for White relieves the pressure on e4 caused by Bb4.  I'm surprised that it seems to be the only move played at high levels, but it clearly has good strategic motives behind it.)



Heh i actually prepared this line for the michigan open. My first thoughts were this:1st No one at my low class level would have even heard of the root game. This may be a harsh statement but  one which is largely plausible. 2nd i doubt it has recieved any awesome coverage in french book in the last 10 years. This is always a good idea. 3rd. Well it puts them on there own resources and I am still on my opening book. You can check chesslive.de for the latest games. My friend Phil played the winawer for a while and he was really my only sparring partner but the strategy of the 3 mentioned points above worked out well for me. This is why i like it and still play it given the chance.
  
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #38 - 10/25/05 at 09:59:53
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I am with SF on this topic. If you have faith in 4.Bd3, then play it. Either you will score points, or you will learn why you were wrong.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #37 - 10/23/05 at 18:47:46
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Photophore,

Let us know how things turn out!  Maybe you'll come up with some interesting novelties for us.  Anyway, have fun, et bon chance!
  
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photophore
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #36 - 10/23/05 at 11:42:59
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Smyslov_Fan!
If I rely on my databases : Chess Informant and TWIC ,
I see that the stats of 4 Bd3 are not worse as those of
4 e5 , and play is more fluid , what is more of my taste
Maybe you are right and 4 e5 is strnger , but I don't feel
comfortable with it , if only White have not initiative unless they embark in the adventure of "poisoned pawn"
I try it in a game : if it doesn't work , I shall turn to 3 Nd2
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #35 - 10/23/05 at 07:52:17
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Photophore,

My bad!  The Gipslis-Geller game from 1958 went 6.Bf3 (a typo, not a mistaken move.  Sorry!)0-0 7.Ne2 e5 (Petrosian played 7...Nbd7 and got quick equality against Pilnik in a 1954 game) 8.0-0 Bc3 9.Nc3 ed4 10.Nb5 c5 11.Bf4 a6 (a possible improvement in ECO is 11...Na6) 12.Nd6 Nc6 wiht equality.

Personally, I wonder about whether 9...ed4 was Black's best (is 9...a6 better?)  It turned out well enough, but I am a bit suspicious of the play in this game.

Earlier (1957), the same two combattants played
6.Bf3 Nbd7 7.Ne2 (as in the game below) e5! with instant equality according to EC0

Euwe-Alekhine(Aussee match, 1921-22), the model game for the system, went:  6.Bf3 Nc6 7.Ne2 Ne7 8.0-0 Ng6 9.Ne4 Ne4 10.Be4 0-0 11.Nf4 Bd6 12.Ng6 hg6 13.Qf3 c6 14.c3 Qc7 15.h4 e5 16.h5 ed4 17.cd4 gh5 18.Qh5 f5 with equality according to Byrne and Mednis.

To my modern eye, seeing top players trade off pieces like this seems a bit alien.  Perhaps they were both content for a draw, I don't know.

Again, I am not using a board or computer this time, so my analysis is based on ECO and my own (flawed) vision.  Please take that into account when reading my notes!
  
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photophore
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #34 - 10/23/05 at 06:27:50
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I can quote Barlov-Raicevic Rakovica 1982
1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Bb4 4 Bd3 dxe4 5 Bxe4 Nf6
6 Bf3 Nc6 7 Nge2 (1-0 , 44)
I chose this game as players have about the same rating >2400
I am currently analyzing it with Junior8
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #33 - 10/23/05 at 00:50:04
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Photophore,

The immediate, superficial answer to why White doesn't play 4.Bd3 in the Winawer is that Black has a very simple way to equalise:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Bd3? dxe4! 5.Bxe4 Nf6. (ECO C15)

I don't know all the MacCutcheon theory, but I think White's best is to go down that road if he hopes for any advantage, and 4.Bd3 is rarely played in the MacCutcheon.  (At least to my knowledge.)

I just looked it up in my old ECO and there are at least two paths to equality according to Robert Byrne and Mednis (the co-authors of the section.)

They agree that White's best is probably to transpose into an inferior form of the MacCutcheon (C12), but they also give a game between Gipslis and Geller, 1958 which led to equality in when White replied 6.Bd3!? instead of 6.Bg5.

They also mention that Black has a second way to equality:  4...c5!?  Glancing through the games they cite, it's White who's struggling for equality.

Probably these two different weapons are what make 4.Bd3 so bad.  But I do need to point out that my research is old-fangled and may be subject to some serious revision.  

Also, some interesting players have tried 4.Bd3 as White:  Euwe, Ljubovevic, Averbach, Gligorich, Tartakower, Scherbakov and other strong players were unable to prove an advantage.

Do you have a line for White that looks interesting?
  
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photophore
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #32 - 10/22/05 at 07:09:08
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I don't like too much 4 exd5 , since it releases too early tension in the center , but 4 Bd3 looks OK
Why is it not played more often?
  
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #31 - 10/22/05 at 02:43:12
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About Tartakower/Larsen's move 5.Qf3: 5...Qe7+! (5... Nc6!? ; 5... Nf6 6.Bg5 Pillsbury) and now Black plays Nf6 versus Be3 and Nc6 otherwise.
Main books (Larsen's best games; Minev "New and forgotten ideas about the French" ; Zlotnik; Jovicic ; Psakhis) leads to "main" (?)  line given by ECO:  6.Be3 Nf6 7.Ne2 (7.h3  Lehmann-Farago,Kiev 1978 -Psakhis ; 7.Bd3?! or 7.a3 Mestrovic-Maric,Kraljevo 1967 - Zlotnik & Psakhis) Nc6 8.h3 (8.a3!? Bouaziz-Watson,Vancouver 1977 - Tiemann & Watson; 8.ooo?? loses queen by force) Bxc3 (8..Ne4 to avoid Minev's suggestion in main line. transposes to Lehman-Farago) 9.bxc3 Ne4 10.ooo (10.g3!? Minev) Qa3+ 11.Kb1 Nxc3+ (MCO) 12.Nxc3 Qb4+ 13.Kc1 Qxc3 14.Qxd5 Be6 and advantage to Black.
  
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