Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!? (Read 17016 times)
TN
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #17 - 03/21/11 at 06:32:03
Post Tools
[quote author=575A4F523D0 link=1129641682/16#16 date=1300688460][quote author=72715D3F0 link=1129641682/5#5 date=1129669302]Siebenhaar/Delnef/Ottstadt in their big Alekhine book spend no less than 6 pages on the Mokele Mbembe. They give 3.d4! e6 4.Bd3! d5 and now 5.h4, 5.Nh3 and 5.Ne2. Nothing though on 3...f6.[/quote]

Nunn's Chess Openings (p. 129, #30) has 3. d4 f6  4. Qh5+ g6  5. Qh4 d5  6. Bd3 better for white.

As for 3. d4 e6, Nunn's recommends 4. Nh3, but I can't find a refutation of 4...Qh4.   Can anyone help me here?  [/quote]

5.Qe2 looks very good for White. Shame about 5.g3 Nxg3.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Simple Human
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1
Joined: 03/21/11
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #16 - 03/21/11 at 06:21:00
Post Tools
[quote author=72715D3F0 link=1129641682/5#5 date=1129669302]Siebenhaar/Delnef/Ottstadt in their big Alekhine book spend no less than 6 pages on the Mokele Mbembe. They give 3.d4! e6 4.Bd3! d5 and now 5.h4, 5.Nh3 and 5.Ne2. Nothing though on 3...f6.[/quote]

Nunn's Chess Openings (p. 129, #30) has 3. d4 f6  4. Qh5+ g6  5. Qh4 d5  6. Bd3 better for white.

As for 3. d4 e6, Nunn's recommends 4. Nh3, but I can't find a refutation of 4...Qh4.   Can anyone help me here? 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
flaviddude
Senior Member
****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 329
Location: Australia
Joined: 01/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #15 - 02/28/09 at 03:16:10
Post Tools
the opening is dealt with at http://www.chessville.com/UCO/index.htm
  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1382
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #14 - 02/27/09 at 20:50:24
Post Tools
FightingDragon wrote on 10/19/05 at 03:07:45:
In your line after 7. ... g6! 8.Nf3 (after 8.fg5: c5 9.dc5: Nc6 10.Nf3 Bg4 11.Bb5 e6 black looks okay, even Fritz acknowledges that) gf4: 9.Ng5 I don't see what white replies after 9. ... Bh6. The black position looks absolutely sound.
[...]
And how to assess the position after 3.d4 f6!? (Buecker's way to play the Mokele) 4.ef6: Nf6: (or even ef6:)  ?

Kaissiber 1 (1996) had mentioned that 9.Ng5 was refuted by 9...Bh6!, in its 7 page review of "The Big Book of Busts". Then there was the wrong spelling Mokele "Mbebe", and a few minor errors.  

Regarding 3.d4 f6 4.exf6, if White wants to get this kind of position, the move order 4.Bd3 d5 5.exf6 looks more precise, when 5...exf6 is risky. After 5...Nxf6 followed by g6 White is slightly better.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
flaviddude
Senior Member
****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 329
Location: Australia
Joined: 01/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #13 - 02/27/09 at 07:38:29
Post Tools
FightingDragon wrote on 10/18/05 at 08:21:21:
Hi!

Does anybody here know something about the "Mokele Mbembe", which is categorised by 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4 ?
It is named after a mystic dinosaur which is said to still exist in Kongo.
The opening was invented by Stefan Buecker, but on the net I didn't find much relevant material about it, and only one game by Buecker (draw against Rausis).


The book to read is

"On the track of missing animals" by Dr Serge Frechkop 1965 originally published in French in 1955 as "Sur la Piste des Betes Ignorees"

So far at least one of the missing animals has been found along with one or two others.
  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
flaviddude
Senior Member
****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 329
Location: Australia
Joined: 01/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #12 - 02/27/09 at 07:21:40
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 10/18/05 at 21:01:42:
Siebenhaar/Delnef/Ottstadt in their big Alekhine book spend no less than 6 pages on the Mokele Mbembe. They give 3.d4! e6 4.Bd3! d5 and now 5.h4, 5.Nh3 and 5.Ne2. Nothing though on 3...f6.


I have volume 2. this book typifies what can be done by amateurs who are prepared to dig really deep and research lots of sources.
  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1382
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #11 - 02/27/09 at 03:49:31
Post Tools
If there is a refutation of the Mokele Mbembe (or Mokele, for its fans), it should begin with (1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4) 3.d4. However, in my 7-8 OTB games the reaction was always the same: 3.d3. Searching for a forced refutation of a rare opening, with the clock ticking, requires more courage than many have. Psychology aside, even 3.d4 f6 is difficult to beat. It might work even in correspondence chess.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: East of the river Svartån
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #10 - 10/26/05 at 06:55:17
Post Tools
I think the line is related to the more common

1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e5 Ne4 4.Nce2

where 4...d4, 4...f6 and also 4...Nc5 is possible.

  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FightingDragon
Senior Member
****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 267
Joined: 05/12/04
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #9 - 10/25/05 at 04:08:18
Post Tools
Taljechin, I have to agree, Na6 looks better. I have tested the opening a bit on the playchess server.
My experience is that it might be ok, but is difficult to play.
After 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4 3.d3 Nc5 4.d4 Na6 black has in principle two ways to play:
1. he can play d5 and reach a position which resembles a Gurgenidze. Should be playable though I think black is worse.
2. he can play more ambitiously in Alekhine fashion with d6 and c5 (which is supported by the knight on a6). This is more risky because the knight could be missing on the kingside (but where is the difference to the Alekhine?) but seems to give black some play.
As I don't have any issue of Kaissiber, I don't know what Buecker has to say on the subject.
Has anyone checked what I wrote on the mainline with 3.d4 f6 ?
Everybody seems to go 4.Bd3 d5 5.f3 Ng5 6.Bg5: fg5: 7.f4 g6 8.fg5:
Perhaps I have to look at 8. ... c5 9.c3 a little closer. Does anybody know what Buecker says about that? I hope he adresses the Mokele Mbembe in a future issue of his "Over the Horizons" column at Chesscafe.com (by the way, recommended!).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #8 - 10/19/05 at 03:34:51
Post Tools
Quote:
I am surprised that nobody has suggested 3.d3, which looks quite logical to me. What is black's plan after 3. ... Nc5 4.d4 Ne6 (any other idea?)?


I think black is supposed to play 4...Na6, but it's a long time since I saw it discussed and modern software may be able to find a gap in Bücker's lines.

Have you checked his magazine, Kaissiber, for more info? That would probably be the most updated source available.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FightingDragon
Senior Member
****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 267
Joined: 05/12/04
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #7 - 10/19/05 at 03:07:45
Post Tools
Alias, thanks for your fast reply!
Yesterday I tried the Mokele Mbembe online and funnily my opponent (rated about 2100) played the seemingly critical variation! I deviated with the weak 7. ... g4? and was much worse after 8.f5! (though I won the game anyway).
But perhaps the main value of the Mokele Mbembe is that the black position is not as bad as it looks (otherwise it would be horrible). I've experienced that almost all Buecker recommendations have a certain logic in them and are to a certain extent playable.
In your line after 7. ... g6! 8.Nf3 (after 8.fg5: c5 9.dc5: Nc6 10.Nf3 Bg4 11.Bb5 e6 black looks okay, even Fritz acknowledges that) gf4: 9.Ng5 I don't see what white replies after 9. ... Bh6. The black position looks absolutely sound.
Perhaps we should also not forget that white has already made a concession in giving up the bishop pair (a first small psychological victory for black?!)!
@LostHighway: Do you have any experiences with the Mokele or why do you consider 8. ... gf4: better than 8. ... g4?

I am surprised that nobody has suggested 3.d3, which looks quite logical to me. What is black's plan after 3. ... Nc5 4.d4 Ne6 (any other idea?)? Perhaps he could play d6, or d5.
And how to assess the position after 3.d4 f6!? (Buecker's way to play the Mokele) 4.ef6: Nf6: (or even ef6:)  ?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: East of the river Svartån
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #6 - 10/18/05 at 23:44:33
Post Tools
Quote:
Another bad opening.  Even the line quoted above has the silly 8...g4 instead of the better 8...gf4.  The normal Alekhine is bad enough on its own.  2...Ne4 just makes it worse.


The Alekhine is not that bad. It's not one of the main defenses to 1.e4 for sure, but it's still a respectable opening. 2...Ne4 makes it much worse.

I just gave the main line in the book. Also mentioned was 8...gxf4 9.Ng5! e6 10.Qg4! Qe7 11.0-0
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10505
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #5 - 10/18/05 at 21:01:42
Post Tools
Siebenhaar/Delnef/Ottstadt in their big Alekhine book spend no less than 6 pages on the Mokele Mbembe. They give 3.d4! e6 4.Bd3! d5 and now 5.h4, 5.Nh3 and 5.Ne2. Nothing though on 3...f6.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lost highway
Senior Member
****
Offline


I may be crazy.

Posts: 471
Joined: 06/17/05
Gender: Male
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #4 - 10/18/05 at 16:56:44
Post Tools
Quote:
I was right. There's two pages of analysis in the book I mentioned.

Main line:

1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4 3.d4! f6 4.Bd3 d5 5.f3! Ng5 6.Bxg5 fxg5 7.f4! g6! 8.Nf3! g4 9.Ng5 Bh6 10.Nxh7 Rxh7 11.Bxg6+ Rf7 12.Qd3 Bf8 13.f5 e6 14.f6 Qd7 15.h3! g3 16.Qxg3

The name was apparently given by Bücker.

Well, as it's spelled I guess.  Wink

Another bad opening.  Even the line quoted above has the silly 8...g4 instead of the better 8...gf4.  The normal Alekhine is bad enough on its own.  2...Ne4 just makes it worse.

- Lost Highway
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: East of the river Svartån
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: Mokele Mbembe 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4!?
Reply #3 - 10/18/05 at 10:19:31
Post Tools
I was right. There's two pages of analysis in the book I mentioned.

Main line:

1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4 3.d4! f6 4.Bd3 d5 5.f3! Ng5 6.Bxg5 fxg5 7.f4! g6! 8.Nf3! g4 9.Ng5 Bh6 10.Nxh7 Rxh7 11.Bxg6+ Rf7 12.Qd3 Bf8 13.f5 e6 14.f6 Qd7 15.h3! g3 16.Qxg3

The name was apparently given by Bücker.

Quote:
how do you pronounce this creature?!


Well, as it's spelled I guess.  Wink
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo