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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Ragozin QGD (Read 33146 times)
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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #31 - 03/18/11 at 12:39:51
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Interesting is that this lines, Ragozin&Viena are covered in old Panov Opening manuals.
  

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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #30 - 08/25/07 at 02:26:59
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Here you go..
hopefully Ruslan gets about covering this game. But i'm sure it'll make it to Informator/NIC sooner or later.

Van Wely-M.Carlsen Biel 2007
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.Bg5 O-O 6.e3 c5 7.cxd5
exd5 8.Bd3 c4 9.Bc2 Nbd7 10.O-O Qa5 11.Rc1 Bxc3 12.bxc3 Ne4
13.Bb1 Re8 14.Bf4 Nb6 15.Ne5 f6 16.Qh5 Be6 17.f3 fxe5 18.Bxe5
Bf7 19.Qh3 Nf6 20.Bxf6 gxf6 21.Qh6 Bg6 22.Bxg6 hxg6 23.Qxg6+
Kf8 24.Qxf6+ Kg8 25.Qg6+ Kf8 26.Qf6+ Kg8 27.e4 Qb5 28.Qg6+ Kf8
29.Qf6+ Kg8 30.Qg6+ Kf8 31.e5 Qc6 32.Qf5+ Ke7 33.Qh7+ Kd8
34.f4 Qd7 35.Qxd7+ Kxd7 36.g4 Rg8 37.h3 Na4 38.Kg2 b5 39.Kg3
a5 40.a3 b4 41.cxb4 axb4 42.axb4 Nb2 43.Rc3 Nd3 44.b5 Rgb8
45.Rb1 Ra5 46.f5 Raxb5 47.Rxb5 Rxb5 48.e6+ Ke7 49.Ra3 Rb7
50.g5 Nb4 51.Re3 Nc6 52.f6+ Kd6 53.Kg4 c3 54.e7 c2 55.Rc3 Rb8
56.Rxc2 Nxd4 57.Rb2 Rc8 58.g6 Ne6 59.Rb6+ Kd7 60.Rb7+ 1-0
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #29 - 08/24/07 at 19:59:37
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Inn,

Thanks for the information.  Do you have a copy of the game?  I don't know it off-hand.

Cheers!
  
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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #28 - 08/24/07 at 16:27:25
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latest CBM 119 contains interesting survey by Evgeny Postny on the Ragozin. Good coverage of the 7. Rc1 stuff where Black is apparently doing okay in Morozevich-Movsesian Bosna 2007, but i'm not convinced by Postny's rather scant coverage of 7. e3 c5 8. Bd3 c4 9. Bc2 Nbd7 10. 0-0 Qa5 11. Rc1 Bxc3 12. bxc3 (as in recent Van Wely-Carlsen). a part of me suspects that White's extra centre pawn and two bishops should amount to something...
  
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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #27 - 08/24/07 at 01:04:41
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EricTheRed, in the absence of any books that deal adequately with the Ragozin, you might create a database/tree of GM Aleksandrov's games. He has a very narrow repertoire and plays the Ragozin and Nimzo-Indian move order discussed in other posts almost exclusively as Black.

I think there is a lot to be said for the "heroes" approach of finding someone who plays a particular opening with almost obsessive devotion (Gleizerov, Aleksandrov, Williams, Volkov, Miezis, and of course Sveshnikov spring to mind) and building a repertoire around what he or she plays.

(BTW, Aleksandrov was Shereshevsky's most successful student and played the White side of the repertoire from The Soviet Chess Conveyor for many years.)
  
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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #26 - 07/02/07 at 14:58:15
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MarinFan,

The entire Ragozin was considered to be bonderline refuted years ago.

Nowadays, with computer analysis available, the answers are far less clear. 

In short, I have no idea if the Ragosin is refuted.  It sounds like you prefer the Black side, so keep playing it.  You're surely strong enough to survive most of the tactics and you seem comfortable with the resulting positions.  So why not play them and keep an eye out for recent games that may show some Fritz/Rybka analysis.   If there are any specific lines you want to analyse, let us know!

Cheers!

Smiley
  
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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #25 - 07/02/07 at 13:17:40
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Hello,

I have recently got interested in the Ragozin again. My slightly different spin on the question, is that I am interested in Nimzo-Indian type positions, and having Ragozin in my Rep will give me more chance of getting them. In UK weekend tournaments it is  quite common for 1.d4 players to "risk" following up with a later c4, if the opponent has played d5. A quite common move order is 1.Nf3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.c4, maybe influenced by "Kramnik" series of books. Looking at other people's games in tournaments it is still quite rare for these 1.d4 players to allow an Nimzo-Indian by the direct move order. I also don't much care for 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Bb4, were I feel white having d-pawn at home, is quite handy for him, even though quite a few top players seem to like this for black. White can, for example, chose to transpose to a particular line of the Qc2 Nimzo-Indian later, and in general I think it is very easy for black to give-up the bishop pair for little compensation.
                     Anyway, after all that psycho-babble my particular question is in the main-line of the Ragozin after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 5. Nc3 Bb4 6.pxp pxp 7.Bg5. Nowdays, setups with nb-d7 are mostly played, and I think they are the only ones considered in Bogdan Lalic's book. The old Portisch v Fischer game continued 7 ..h6 8.Bh4 c5 with a later Nc6 which looked more active in principal but has this line been refuted now?

Bye John S
  
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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #24 - 06/19/07 at 20:52:51
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Which is why ErictheRed asked this question:

ErictheRed wrote on 02/20/06 at 06:22:01:
Well, one thing I'm curious about is how Black normally responds to 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5, assuming he was hoping for a Ragozin.  Now I don't think 4...Bb4 is considered all that great, but what about 4...c5 5.cxd5 cxd4?  I don't even know what this is called, but I think it's playable.

Anyway, I'd like to know how Ragozin/Vienna players face the mover order 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5.  Also, I'd love it if anyone could point me to some critical/interesting new games in the Ragozin.  As I said, I'm not a subscriber to this section, but I'm looking for something new to play against 1.d4 that's sound and not currently popular.  The Ragozin seems to fit the bill.  I can study the games on my own if someone could let me know what the currently critical lines and new ideas are.  Thanks!

  

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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #23 - 06/19/07 at 13:03:25
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MarinFan wrote on 06/19/07 at 09:05:08:
Hello,

Of course black could, but I thought the point of the thread was black wanting to play QGD type setups with Bb4, when it can be an advantage to white not having playing Nf3.

Bye John S


You are right, John. However, after 4 Nf3, White has already played the move.
  
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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #22 - 06/19/07 at 09:05:08
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Hello,

Of course black could, but I thought the point of the thread was black wanting to play QGD type setups with Bb4, when it can be an advantage to white not having playing Nf3.

Bye John S
  
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The Ragozin QGD
Reply #21 - 06/19/07 at 02:05:56
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MarinFan wrote on 07/17/06 at 08:31:55:
Hello,

Instead of 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5, a Ragozin player can use the move order 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 then against 3. Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Bb4, whilst against 3Nc3 Bb4 play the Nimzo-Indian were against several white tries can play the Ragozin like d5 later if wish. The young Fischer played like this a lot.
Bye John S

 
  Why can't Black avoid the whole Ragozin setup after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4 Nf3 with Be7.
  
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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #20 - 10/21/06 at 20:42:20
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Then I have a chance to play a nimzo after all: 1.d4 Nf6 2.d4 e6! 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.e3!?  Smiley
  

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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #19 - 10/21/06 at 19:10:10
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About the Vienna var. ,there is a very interesting commented game by  GM Alexander Rianzantsev in the archive of Chess.cafe.com/Misha interview/August2006.
Otherwise it is important to know that after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 Bb4 5.e3 the best for black is probably to reach the main line Nimzo. Rubinstein
  

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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #18 - 10/21/06 at 03:59:46
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Unfortunately the Ragozin (and also Vienna) is under-represented in QGD literature, though these lines are regarded as fully viable nowadays. The only book that has coverage is Lalic's book on Bg5 QGDs iirc, but don't have it myself.
Best coverage on Ragozin is Ruslan's on chesspub.
  
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Re: The Ragozin QGD
Reply #17 - 10/21/06 at 02:27:50
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Are there any books on the Ragozin that are worth getting?  I can't think of any that really deals with this line.  For instance, Sadler's excellent QGD book and Janjgava's The Queen's Gambit and Catalan for Black both ignore it.  If I wanted to form a Nimzo/Ragozin repertoire, what resources should I use for the Ragozin part?  Thanks!
  
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