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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C10: Eingorn Variation of the French (Read 13609 times)
MartinC
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Re: C10: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #49 - 02/22/13 at 09:34:49
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I think g5 is somewhat less of a theme in Nc3 positions Smiley

It isn't totally obvious that 3 Nd2 h6 followed by white delaying e5 as long as possible is so bad for black. Yes h6 may not be ideal in some of the lines but they're mostly relatively harmless to start with (say after 3 Nd2 Nf6 etc) and h6 isn't often going to be totally wasted.

Unless of course there is some concrete set up where the kingside weakness becomes a real problem.
  
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CanadianClub
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Re: C10: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #48 - 02/22/13 at 08:29:34
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I don't know with Nc3, but in the 3.Nd2,h6 line, a very good player told me some months ago that if White don't play an early e5, that move (h6) is not justified so.... not so good (a tempo wasted). And that's because I was absolutely fascinated with the chapter on that in Dangerous Weapons The French book.

If White plays standard, with e5, Bb3, Nf3, etc.... h6 has a lot of interest to me. And the vast majority of foes I will face will commit to an early e5 for sure (in moves 4 or 5). But... the thread W plays the player correctly is there.

Maybe in the 3.Nc3 line that thoughts apply also. Or not  Cheesy


Salut,
  
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BabySnake
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Re: C10: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #47 - 02/19/13 at 14:01:24
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It seems to me that white gets a clear plus against the Eingorn variation with

3.Nc3 h6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Bd3 Nb4 6.Bb5+

See Almasi-Berg 2007.

Black has to make a concession with either

6...c6 (taking away the c6 square for the knight) 7.Be2 (and if black continues as if white had played 6.Be2) 7...Nf6 8. e5 Ne4 9.a3 Nxc3 10.bxc3 and now with c6 blocked black has to play 10...Na6 with a very passive position.

6...Bd7 7.Bxd7+ Qxd7 8.Ne5 with a great position for white. For example 8...Qe7 9.a3 Nc6 10.Nxc6.
  
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Uberdecker
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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #46 - 04/15/06 at 19:05:29
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Dear Castlerock,

Coming from someone who doesn't like "sweeping generalisations", your remark was a bit cheeky.
Anyway, I haven't had time to look into MNb's suggestion, but 6. ...de ; 7. Qg4 Ktf6 would my instinctive reply.

                                                           Regards,
                                                              Hubert
  
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castlerock
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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #45 - 04/15/06 at 15:47:55
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[quote author=Uberdeker link=1142611685/30#44 date=1145109740]
What variations are you talking about?[/quote]

Nothing specific. 7...0-0 8.Bd3 Nbc6 9.Qh5 Ng6 for example,leads to h6 in some lines. Some lines in Steinitz includes h6. The thought crossed my mind while replying. Truth to tell, didn't even bother to check whether it is reachable after 3...h6.
« Last Edit: 04/15/06 at 16:52:45 by castlerock »  

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Uberdecker
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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #44 - 04/15/06 at 15:02:20
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[quote author=castlerock link=1142611685/30#43 date=1145021377]3.Nc3 h6 helps only if white obliges by playing e5 after ...Bb4 or ...Nf6. This may cut out lot of options for white. Without e5 things are definitely not rosy for black.
[/quote]

What variations are you talking about?
  
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castlerock
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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #43 - 04/14/06 at 14:29:37
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3.Nc3 h6 helps only if white obliges by playing e5 after ...Bb4 or ...Nf6. This may cut out lot of options for white. Without e5 things are definitely not rosy for black.

However, tweaking your move order slightly, black can float. 6...c5 7.Qg4 gives two viable options. 7...Rh7 and 7...Qa5. I analysed the personal preference of of 7...Qa5 8.Bd2 Rh7 9.exd5 cxd4 10.cxd4 Qxd5 and we have reached a position typically over estimated by computers. With queens likely to be off board, black can get into an easily defendable position. It might take another 25 moves to attain equality. But I think it is possible.

My 2c

« Last Edit: 04/14/06 at 18:04:02 by castlerock »  

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MNb
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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #42 - 04/13/06 at 03:10:07
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But still nobody cared to react on 4.Be3 Bb4 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 dxe4 7.Qg4 +=, except Dom, who agreed. So I may conclude, that there is consensus about this?
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #41 - 04/12/06 at 05:24:24
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Ooops, I meant 4. everytime I typed 5. in the previous note.  Sorry about that. Embarrassed
  
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MNb
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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #40 - 04/12/06 at 02:36:47
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"We can all go home and discard the entire French based on that analysis."
Not really. In quite a lot of variations of the French Black solves the problem of the queen's bishop one way or another. In the line I gave I don't see it; I think that bishop on c8 will become a long term problem.
I am not sure what Smyslov_Fan means with 5.Be3 Bb4. I advocate 4.Be3 Bb4 5.a3 +=, as I have indicated a few times before.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #39 - 04/12/06 at 02:04:21
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MNb stated,

"White has an edge; Black still has that bishop on c8."

We can all go home and discard the entire French based on that analysis.  Hmmm.....


Anyway, I'm sure that Uberdecker will point out that after 5.Be3 Black will play 5...de4 OR 5...Bb4.  He suggested 5...Bb4 earlier, which is part of why I liked the cheeky way Kosteniuk played it (5.a3).
  
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MNb
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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #38 - 04/10/06 at 21:27:05
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3...h6 4.Be3 (I insist, that this must be White's best) Nc6 and now 5.e5 (5.Nf3 dxe4 looks satisfactory indeed) Ne7 (White will be happy after Bb4?! 6.a3 or 6.Qg4) 6.f4 Nf5 7.Bf2 and White has an edge; Black still has that bishop on c8.
  

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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #37 - 04/08/06 at 11:07:50
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h6 move exists in Tarrasch line: 3.Nd2 h6 and one new thread will be useful to comment all the lines. I only give: 4.Ngf3 Nf6!? 5.e5 (5.Bd3 c5 6.dxc5 Marciano-Bricard,Narbonne 1997 or 6. c3  Nevednichy-Eingorn,Bad Worishofen 2002, games given in Psakhis's Nd2 French book) Nfd7 6.c3 (6.Bd3 c5 7.c3 Nc6 Dom transposing to gambit Korchnoi where Black uses a waiting move h6) c5 7.a3 Bd7 8.Bd3 a5 9.b3 b6 10.Bb4 Na6 11.oo Nc7 12.Be2 a4 13.b4 Ba6 Vallejo Pons-Morozevich,Amber Monte Carlo 2004

  

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MNb
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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #36 - 04/03/06 at 02:53:41
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@Uberdeker:
for the second time you have ignored my suggestion 4.Be3 Bb4 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 dxe4 7.Qg4 +=.

@Dom
to my amazement 3...dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nc6 5.Be3 has netted Black 3 wins, 1 draw and no losses. Still it seems to me, that h6 is not so useful here, while the extra move Nf3 is. I must take a closer look at it. It might be, that 3...h6 4.Be3 Nc6 5.Bb5 is White's best. It is all very unexplored of course.
  

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Re: Eingorn Variation of the French
Reply #35 - 04/02/06 at 22:22:01
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dom,

I'm sorry I missed the reference in your notes to the game I saw. 

Uberdecker,

I recognise that 3...h6 is supposed to be some sort of high-class waiting move.  But I just don't buy the argument.

You make a reasonable point that Black could play 4...de4, but I don't agree that 4.a3 is *more* useless than 3...h6 in that line.  White can prepare a kingside attack with pieces and pawns while Black would have diffuculty finding a safe home on the queenside.

I will analyse dom's lines more closely, because I believe he probably has a pretty good idea of how play goes for White.  By the way, Marie Sebag lost on the White side of the French.  Was she being patriotic?  Undecided   

  
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