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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7 (Read 37957 times)
Klick
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #72 - 11/16/08 at 07:29:06
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It took me a while to check many transpositions, which are a bit bewildering. I haven't been able to find back the idea to leave the bishops on the original square indeed in my small library. For one thing in this thread Dji has argued that White should not play Rf1-d1 too early. So I wonder why Black in this sequence should not just play 10...Bb7 (iso Be7) and be happy that he has avoided the 10.Bf4, 11.Rad1 setup.


You are entirely right. Does white have to show his cards with Rfd1, Be3, Bf4 or a4 and can black use his flexibility to react accordingly? As far as I recall we`ve shown previously that Rfd1 turns out fine for black.

In case of 9.Bf4 b5 10.Bb3 b4 might very well work due to the "saved" tempo. At least my brief analysis looks decent for black.

Palkovi`s 9.a4 looks like it might be white`s best try.

I am not sure about the assesment of the line I gave, but if black comfortably can go 10.. Bb7 it`s not that relevant at the moment. RR is about materially equal to Q+P and black has a slight initiative so I think it`s fair to give it the unclear sign.
  

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MNb
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #71 - 11/14/08 at 01:30:53
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It took me a while to check many transpositions, which are a bit bewildering. I haven't been able to find back the idea to leave the bishops on the original square indeed in my small library. For one thing in this thread Dji has argued that White should not play Rf1-d1 too early. So I wonder why Black in this sequence should not just play 10...Bb7 (iso Be7) and be happy that he has avoided the 10.Bf4, 11.Rad1 setup.
To answer your remark first: I am not so sure about 11.e5 dxe5 12.Nxe5 Qb6 (Qc7? 13.Nxf7) 13.Qf3 0-0 as two rooks usually more than match the queen: 14.Be3 Bc5 15.Qxa8 Bb7 16.Nxd7 Nxd7 17.Qxf8+ Nxf8 18.Bxc5 Qxc5 19.Rd3 and I disagree with Fritz' -+.
Instead Palkovi dislikes the normal 11.Bf4 because of Qb6.

So consequent is 9.Bf4 and b5 (but can Black do without this?) 10.Bb3 and is b4 possible now?

Palkovi makes another point. Because of the early ...Nbd7 White might consider a2-a4, eg 9.a4 Be7 10.Rd1 0-0 (Qa5 11.Bd2 idea Qc5? 12.b4 Qxb4 13.Nb5) 11.Bf4 (11.e5 dxe5 12.Nxe5 Qa5 13.Bf4) 11.Bf4 Qc7 12.Rac1 (12.e5) Nh5 13.Be3 Nhf6 14.b4 Jakubowski-Zych, POLch 1994.
  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #70 - 11/12/08 at 23:19:24
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Quickly reading through the topic, I don`t think there has been any discussion of the Finegold move-order, i.e. postponing Bc8-b7: 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 d6 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bc4 Nf6 7.0-0 a6 8.Qe2 Nbd7




What do we think of it? I assume that the bishop can prove useful on c8 in some lines, defending d7 and saving a tempo that can be used elsewhere. I`ve had a hard time finding anything on it on the internet, including games. Just analysing quickly I see that the brute force variation 9.Rd1 b5 10.Bb3 Be7 11.e5!? dxe 12.Nxe5 Qb6 13.Qf3 fails due to 13...0-0.

On the face of it 13.Be3 looks like a better attempt, but black still seems to be doing ok after 13..Qb7

I know Bob Ciaffone & Ben Finegold have written a book on this line but it seems hard to come by. John Watson seems to approve of both the book and the variation in his review on http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_jw/jw_smith_morra_gambit.html

I`ve put this post in this thread due to the apparent similarities.
  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #69 - 08/22/07 at 21:33:47
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Because of Black's 4th move this game belongs in the ...Nge7 thread, where we discussed the Sacharov sac.
  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #68 - 08/22/07 at 10:33:46
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Kamsky's interesting idea!


[Event "14th Ordix Open"]
[Site "Mainz GER"]
[Date "2007.08.18"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Negele, M."]
[Black "Kamsky, G."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "2245"]
[BlackElo "2718"]
[PlyCount "76"]
[EventDate "2007.08.18"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2007.08.20"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 e6 7. O-O Nge7 8.
Bg5 b5 9. Bb3 Bb7 10. Qe2?! dubious but what else Nd4? Qb8 11. Rfe1 Ng6 12. Rad1 Bc5 13. e5 h6 14. Bc1 Bb4
15. Bc2 Nce7 16. Rd4 Bxc3 17. bxc3 Bd5 18. Ba3 Qb7 19. Rxd5 Nxd5 20. Bxg6 fxg6
21. Qe4 Kf7 22. Nh4 Rhc8 23. Qxg6+ Kg8 24. Bc1 d6 25. exd6 Qf7 26. Qg4 Rc4 27.
Re4 Nf6 28. Rxc4 Nxg4 29. Rxg4 g5 30. Nf3 Qf5 31. Rd4 Qc2 32. Bd2 e5 33. Rd5 e4
34. Ne1 Qxa2 35. Rd4 Rd8 36. h4 Qe6 37. hxg5 hxg5 38. Bxg5 Rxd6 0-1

  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #67 - 08/15/07 at 18:43:26
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Sorry for Palliser's anti-Morra Cool
What Palliser recommande against Alapine ?
  

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MNb
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #66 - 08/15/07 at 17:32:41
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urusov wrote on 08/15/07 at 17:02:23:
FYI: Richard Palliser covers this line for Black in the recent book "Fighting the Anti-Sicilians" (Everyman 2007).  I have not looked closely at his analysis or compared it to what's posted here, but it does look safe enough for Black with an early ...Nge7.

Palliser's book is very good, by the way, and he offers a number of anti-"anti-Sicilian" lines that feature the queenside fianchetto idea with ...a6, ...e6, ...b5, ...Bb7 (including against 2.Nc3 transpositions and the Grand Prix).  So if you want to build a repertoire around this set-up, he's your man.


Sure, but Dji and I are having fun proving that Black's task is not easy at all, if he plays a6, e6, b5 and Bb7 against the Morra. White's key move after ...Nge7 of course is Bc1-g5 immediately, forcing a weakness after either ...f6 and ...h6. What I have learned the last few weeks is how dangerous that Nd5 sac is.
  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #65 - 08/15/07 at 17:02:23
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FYI: Richard Palliser covers this line for Black in the recent book "Fighting the Anti-Sicilians" (Everyman 2007).  I have not looked closely at his analysis or compared it to what's posted here, but it does look safe enough for Black with an early ...Nge7.

Palliser's book is very good, by the way, and he offers a number of anti-"anti-Sicilian" lines that feature the queenside fianchetto idea with ...a6, ...e6, ...b5, ...Bb7 (including against 2.Nc3 transpositions and the Grand Prix).  So if you want to build a repertoire around this set-up, he's your man.
  
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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #64 - 08/15/07 at 16:29:59
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My last post was a mistake Embarrassed
« Last Edit: 08/15/07 at 18:35:53 by Dji »  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #63 - 08/15/07 at 16:20:27
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MNb wrote on 08/14/07 at 21:58:39:
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 a6 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bc4 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.O-O
b4 9.Nd5 exd5 10.exd5 Bd6 11.Re1+ Ne7 12.Ng5 O-O 13.Qh5 h6 14.Ne4 Qc7 15.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 16.Kh1 Qe5 17.Bg5 Nxd5 Zelic-Sermek, Makarska 1995, 18.Rad1! wins:

Thrue and one again Smiley

Quote:
We cannot blame Zelic for overlooking a move like 18.Rad1, but if Langrock does not mention it, I question the thoroughness of his research (of course there is nothing in Palkovi, he mainly seems to recycle old Flesch' material).


Janos Flesch was a fantastic player and a precursor of the Morra but now everybody  write his own book with the (big)help of precedant books!
It's true there's many omittions but as a whole Langrock did good work.
It's particulary true in the ussr's var.  . he also rehabilited the fianchetto's var and even the Chacogo's var.
So there's still plenty ofwork to do in the gambit Morra!

Quote:
after 11...Kf8 White may investigate 12.Nd4 iso 12.Qd4, eg 12.Nd4 Qc7 13.Nf5 Bxh2+ 14.Kh1 Be5 15.Qg4 g6 16.Rxe5 gxf5 17.Qf4 +-. It is possible though, that Black can defend better.

Can black play 12.Nd4 g6  ?

Quote:
Then there is 13...Nf6 (iso 13...f6) 14.Re2 Na6 15.Rae1 (simple, likeable chess; you have an open file against the enemy king, so double your rooks) Bc5 (I have not looked at Nc5 yet, but don't think this will save Black; White can even afford to play 16.Bc2) 16.Bxf6 Qxf6 17.Ne5 Qf5 18.Qd2 (18.Qh4 probably will do as well) Jenull-Baumann, corr 2003 and Black can keep on fighting with d6 19.Bc2 Qxe5 20.Rxe5 dxe5 21.Rxe5. White's reduced material will make it harder to harass Black's king, but that same King has long term safety problems.

Maybe 18.Qd2 d6 19.Qg5!? g6 20.Qh6+ Kg8 21.Nd3 Qc8 22.Re7 Qf8 23.Qd2 is more to the point
Quote:
Finally there is an interesting move order question.

Van Dyck,M (2017) - Hoeksema,H (2378) [B21]
Gent Open (2), 15.07.2006
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.0–0 b4 9.Nd5 exd5 10.Re1 d6 11.e5 Ne7 12.Bf4 Ng6 13.exd6+ Kd7 14.Nd4 Nxf4 15.Qg4+ Kxd6 16.Qxf4+ Kc5 17.Rac1+ Kb6 18.Ne6 Qf6 19.Qe3+ d4 20.Nxd4 Bc5 21.Rxc5 Kxc5 22.Ne6+ Kd6 23.Qc5+ Kd7 24.Rd1+ Ke8 25.Nc7# 1–0

A little embarrassing for Black, considering the rating gap. White missed 11.Ba4+ Nd7 12.e5 winning.
10...Bc5 is not convincing imo: 11.Bg5 f6 12.exd5+ Kf8 13.Bf4 Ne7 14.d6 Ng6 15.Bg3 and Black faces the same problems as above.
So 10...Bd6 11.exd5+ remains, which just transposes.


I think 10.Re1 is entirely playable and suffisant to give black a goood headache but  black have an  extra option  10...Be7 11.ed5 d6 12.Qd4 Nf6 13.Qb4 Bc8 14.Bf4 0-0 15.Re7 Qe7 16.Bd6 Qd8 17.Be7 Nd5 18.Bd5 Qd5 19.Bf8 Nc6 20.Qc5 Be6 21.Qd5 Bd5 22.Bc5 Bf3 23.gf3 Ne5 with some compensation
  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #62 - 08/14/07 at 21:58:39
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1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 a6 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bc4 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.O-O
b4 9.Nd5 exd5 10.exd5 Bd6 11.Re1+ Ne7 12.Ng5 O-O 13.Qh5 h6 14.Ne4 Qc7 15.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 16.Kh1 Qe5 17.Bg5 Nxd5 Zelic-Sermek, Makarska 1995, 18.Rad1! wins:
a)18...Bf4 18.Bxd5 Bxd5 19.Nf6+.
b)18...Qxb2 19.Rxd5! Bxd5 20.Bxd5 Nc6 21.Nf6+.
c)18...Qf5 19.Qxh2 Nb6 20.Bc2.
d)18...Nf4 19.Qxh2 Bxe4 20.Bxf4 Qf5 21.Re3.

We cannot blame Zelic for overlooking a move like 18.Rad1, but if Langrock does not mention it, I question the thoroughness of his research (of course there is nothing in Palkovi, he mainly seems to recycle old Flesch' material).

After 11...Kf8 White may investigate 12.Nd4 iso 12.Qd4, eg 12.Nd4 Qc7 13.Nf5 Bxh2+ 14.Kh1 Be5 15.Qg4 g6 16.Rxe5 gxf5 17.Qf4 +-. It is possible though, that Black can defend better.

I am not entirely sure about 12.Qd4: a5 (peculiar, that this is best, but I could not find an improvement for Black) 13.Bg5 f6 14.Bf4 Ra6 (Bxf4!? 15.Qxf4 Qb6 16.Rac1 is not clear yet) 15.Re2 Ne7 16.Rae1 Nf5 (iso Sakai's Nc8) 17.Qe4 Bxf4 18.Qxf5 Bd6 19.Qh5 g6 20.Qh6+ Kf7 21.Re7+ wins.

Then there is 13...Nf6 (iso 13...f6) 14.Re2 Na6 15.Rae1 (simple, likeable chess; you have an open file against the enemy king, so double your rooks) Bc5 (I have not looked at Nc5 yet, but don't think this will save Black; White can even afford to play 16.Bc2) 16.Bxf6 Qxf6 17.Ne5 Qf5 18.Qd2 (18.Qh4 probably will do as well) Jenull-Baumann, corr 2003 and Black can keep on fighting with d6 19.Bc2 Qxe5 20.Rxe5 dxe5 21.Rxe5. White's reduced material will make it harder to harass Black's king, but that same King has long term safety problems.

Finally there is an interesting move order question.

Van Dyck,M (2017) - Hoeksema,H (2378) [B21]
Gent Open (2), 15.07.2006
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.0–0 b4 9.Nd5 exd5 10.Re1 d6 11.e5 Ne7 12.Bf4 Ng6 13.exd6+ Kd7 14.Nd4 Nxf4 15.Qg4+ Kxd6 16.Qxf4+ Kc5 17.Rac1+ Kb6 18.Ne6 Qf6 19.Qe3+ d4 20.Nxd4 Bc5 21.Rxc5 Kxc5 22.Ne6+ Kd6 23.Qc5+ Kd7 24.Rd1+ Ke8 25.Nc7# 1–0

A little embarrassing for Black, considering the rating gap. White missed 11.Ba4+ Nd7 12.e5 winning.
10...Bc5 is not convincing imo: 11.Bg5 f6 12.exd5+ Kf8 13.Bf4 Ne7 14.d6 Ng6 15.Bg3 and Black faces the same problems as above.
So 10...Bd6 11.exd5+ remains, which just transposes.
  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #61 - 08/13/07 at 10:19:50
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In more of the book of Langrock I found many analyses on Internet. I cannot give them because of the possible royalties but blacks are not well!

[Event "Makaraska"]
[Site "corr Chessfriend.com"]
[Date "1995.??.??"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Zelic"]
[Black "Sermek"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "1983"]
[BlackElo "2568"]
[Annotator "Dji"]
[PlyCount "45"]
[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
[Source "Chess Mail Ltd"]
[SourceDate "2005.07.27"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 a6 5. Nf3 e6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 8. O-O
b4 9. Nd5 exd5 10. exd5 Bd6 11. Re1+ Ne7 (11... Kf8 12. Qd4 a5 13. Bg5 f6 14.
Bf4 Ra6 15. Re2 Ne7 16. Rae1 Nc8 17. Bh6 gxh6 18. Re8+ Qxe8 19. Qxf6+ Qf7 20.
Qxh8+ Qg8 21. Qf6+ Qf7 22. Qh8+ Qg8 23. Re8+ Kxe8 24. Qxg8+ Bf8 25. Ne5 Rf6 26.
Qh8 Ke7 27. Qxh7+ Kd8 28. Ng6 Kc7 29. Nxf8 Rxf8 30. Qxh6 Re8 31. Qc1+ Kb6 32.
h4 Na6 33. h5 Nc5 34. h6 Nd6 35. h7 Nxb3 36. Qh6 Kc5 37. axb3 Nf7 38. Qc1+ Kb6
39. d6 {1-0  corr. Jenull-Sakai 2003}) 12. Ng5 O-O 13. Qh5 h6 14. Ne4 Qc7 15.
Bxh6 Bxh2+ 16. Kh1 Qe5 17. Bg5 Nxd5 18. Bxd5 Qxd5 19. Qxh2 Qf5 {
? Langrock but i think that others moves are not better.} (19... Nc6 20. Nf6+
gxf6 21. Bxf6 Qh5 22. Qxh5 Rfe8 23. Qh8#) (19... f6 20. Bf4 (20. Rad1 {
is not  bad too} 20... Qxe4 21. Rxe4 Bxe4 22. Bf4 Bf5 (22... Nc6 23. Rxd7 (23.
Qh3 Rae8 24. Rxd7 Ne5 25. Qb3+ Kh7 26. Ra7) 23... Bf5 24. Rb7)) 20... Nc6 21.
Nd6 {here langrock stop and conclude 'with initiative'} 21... Ne5 22. Rad1 Nd3
23. Kg1 Nxe1 24. Rxd5 Bxd5 25. Qh5 Bxa2 26. Nf5 Rf7 27. Qg6 Kh8 28. Bd2 a5 29.
Bxe1 {whites are winning}) 20. Be7 Bxe4 21. Bxf8 Nc6 22. Bd6 {
''with a clear advantage'' Langrock. but maybe Bxg7 is even better(Dji)} (22.
Bxg7 Kxg7 23. Qg3+ Kf8 (23... Qg6 24. Rxe4) 24. Qh4 Re8 25. f3) 22... Bd5 23.
Re3 (23. Kg1 !? {Langrock}) (23. Qg3 {is not bad too}) *

  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #60 - 08/13/07 at 07:53:16
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Sevenviolets wrote on 10/15/06 at 09:38:37:
1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 e6 5. Nf3 a6 6. Bc4 b5 7. Bb3 Bb7 and as for 8.0-0 b4? 9.Nd5!! there are long forced lines to 1-0 after accepting the sacrifice with 9..exd5 10.exd5+- Black can deviate with 9..Nc6 but after 10.Re1, white has dangerous initiative.


This line is dealt with in depth by Langrock. I have not checked his analysis myself so I don's know how good it is. Nevertheless I would not want to play either side without having a long look at the analysis by Langrock.

He gives 10..Bd6 11. Re1+ Ne7 12. Ng5 0-0 13. Qh5 h6 14.Ne4 Qc7 15.Bh6 with lots more analysis (If it does not stack up 15. Nf6 is good enough to draw.
  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #59 - 08/12/07 at 23:11:52
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MNb wrote on 08/12/07 at 21:25:28:
Of course I had looked at 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 Ne7 7.Bg5 b5 8.Bb3 h6 9.Be3 Bb7 10.O-O Ng6 11.Nd4 b4 12.Nd5, but I was not convinced after exd5 13.exd5 Bd6 14.Nf5 Qf6, eg 15.Nxd6+ Qxd6 16.Rc1 0-0 17.Bc5 Qf6 18.Bxf8 Nxf8. White has some compensation, but again, is it enough?


Not a natural move but the queen have to go c1 intead the rooka1  16.Qc1! 0-0 17.Bc5 Qf4 (Qf6 18.Bf8 Nf8 (Kf8 is worse) 19.Qc7 the point!  the queen on the ''seven heaven'' is stronger than the rook  Bd5 20.Bd5 Nc6 21.b3 withe is much better) 18. Bf8 Qc1 19.Rc1 Kf8 20.Rfe1 a remarkable position,black have four pièces and can do nothing!! a5 (d6 21.Rc7) (Ra7 21.Re4 d6 22.Ba4)21.Rc7 Ba6 22.g3 h5 23.Bd1 h4 24.f4+/-
  

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Re: Morra line w/ early a6,b5,Bb7
Reply #58 - 08/12/07 at 21:25:28
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Of course I had looked at 4.Nxc3 e6 5.Bc4 a6 6.Nf3 Ne7 7.Bg5 b5 8.Bb3 h6 9.Be3 Bb7 10.O-O Ng6 11.Nd4 b4 12.Nd5, but I was not convinced after exd5 13.exd5 Bd6 14.Nf5 Qf6, eg 15.Nxd6+ Qxd6 16.Rc1 0-0 17.Bc5 Qf6 18.Bxf8 Nxf8. White has some compensation, but again, is it enough?

Later edit, a comment on Dji's next post:

That's a very clever idea, my compliments.  Cool
« Last Edit: 08/13/07 at 03:32:36 by MNb »  

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