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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Agressive Caro-Kann (Read 7182 times)
Dragan Glas
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #18 - 12/15/07 at 19:07:19
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Greetings,

I'm reminded of a description of Ulf Andersson's style of play, which was described as "minimist" (sic – I believe the commenter meant “minimalist”) - however, a more colourful description of his play could also be used to describe the "aggressiveness" of the Caro-Kann: "going for your big toe" !!  Smiley

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
« Last Edit: 12/16/07 at 02:04:01 by Dragan Glas »  
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HgMan
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #17 - 11/18/07 at 15:18:33
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I think the better term for the Caro--alongside solid--is flexible.  Black has numerous long-term resources, but there are more "aggressive" ways to challenge the center of the board and not concede so much space at the outset.  Nevertheless, the Caro-Kann is a flexible defense for Black: behind a solid pawn structure, Black has several ways to repulse anything White offers, while maintain breakout possibilities as the game wears on.  If Black can withstand the initial attack, his/her chances are often better in the endgame, thanks to the more compact position and better pawn structure.  But aggressive?  Not the main priority...
  

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thibdb13
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #16 - 11/09/07 at 09:41:53
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MNb wrote on 11/09/07 at 03:02:40:
thibdb13 wrote on 11/08/07 at 18:28:13:
I think the chance to see the caro-kann being even agressive as the benko gambit is bigger than to have a decent government in this artificial country called Belgium. Wink


The last time I read about the constitution of the Belgian state, I understood that there were 6 governments; only one is disfunctional at the moment. I strongly doubt if Black can develop 5 aggressive or even 5 active repertoires after 1.e4 c6.

Belgium has a federal government and local governments: Flanders, Brussels, Wallony, German speaking community and French speaking community. A government stays in place till a new one is formed but may not take any sensible decision between the elections and the nomination of a new government. The problem is that the most attributions of the local government a partially shared with the federal one. So, having no federal (or central) government is blocking the entire system.

By the way, except the governments of the German speaking community and (maybe) of Flanders, they are all in a constant state of dysfunctionnality Shocked

This being said I really think it must be easier to find 3 or 4 "more agressive" lines for black in the Caro-Kann than to make the Belgian administration work efficiently.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #15 - 11/09/07 at 09:18:54
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Lou_Cyber wrote on 11/09/07 at 09:06:40:
thibdb13 wrote on 11/08/07 at 18:31:29:
What is this Apocalypse?


This is 1.e4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 3.exd cxd 4.Ne5!?

This somewhat strange line was named by Michael Goeller, who has written a splendid article with further references under http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/articles/opening/apocalypse/apocalypse.htm.

The name refers to the apocalyptical white horse (Ne5), not to belgian politics  Wink.

Lou


I think Morozevich has played this and I believe there was an SOS article on this too
  
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Lou_Cyber
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #14 - 11/09/07 at 09:06:40
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thibdb13 wrote on 11/08/07 at 18:31:29:
What is this Apocalypse?


This is 1.e4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 3.exd cxd 4.Ne5!?

This somewhat strange line was named by Michael Goeller, who has written a splendid article with further references under http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/articles/opening/apocalypse/apocalypse.htm.

The name refers to the apocalyptical white horse (Ne5), not to belgian politics  Wink.

Lou
  

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MNb
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #13 - 11/09/07 at 03:02:40
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thibdb13 wrote on 11/08/07 at 18:28:13:
I think the chance to see the caro-kann being even agressive as the benko gambit is bigger than to have a decent government in this artificial country called Belgium. Wink


The last time I read about the constitution of the Belgian state, I understood that there were 6 governments; only one is disfunctional at the moment. I strongly doubt if Black can develop 5 aggressive or even 5 active repertoires after 1.e4 c6.
  

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Willempie
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #12 - 11/09/07 at 00:33:20
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thibdb13 wrote on 11/08/07 at 18:28:13:
Willempie wrote on 11/08/07 at 13:31:21:
An agressive Caro-Kann?
That's like a Belgian government, it doesnt really exist.

I think the chance to see the caro-kann being even agressive as the benko gambit is bigger than to have a decent government in this artificial country called Belgium. Wink

That's a toughy Wink
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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thibdb13
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #11 - 11/08/07 at 18:31:29
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Lou_Cyber wrote on 11/08/07 at 15:16:07:
I concur with antillian and Willempie,

the CK is not an opening which allows black easily to start early aggressive operations. There are some sharper lines, but not against many white setups. The problem seems to be that it is white who chooses between positional or tactical approaches according to his opening line (Exchange, Panno, Advance, Fantasy, Apocalypse etc.).

The merit of the CK seems to be that black has a very solid defence against most of these lines, so activity or aggression don´t happen in the opening.

If you´re looking for sharp tactical black systems the Ruy Lopez might be a better idea, just take off a year and chunk down those books....


Lou


What is this Apocalypse?
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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thibdb13
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #10 - 11/08/07 at 18:28:13
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Willempie wrote on 11/08/07 at 13:31:21:
An agressive Caro-Kann?
That's like a Belgian government, it doesnt really exist.

I think the chance to see the caro-kann being even agressive as the benko gambit is bigger than to have a decent government in this artificial country called Belgium. Wink
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #9 - 11/08/07 at 17:22:55
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Of course there are aggressive, dynamic lines in the CK, the trouble is that White gets to choose whether they appear or not. You can do far worse than Houska's book, her lines aim for immediate activity, perhaps overly so.

In my opinion, if you want an active, aggressive counter to 1.e4, play another opening!
  
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #8 - 11/08/07 at 15:16:07
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I concur with antillian and Willempie,

the CK is not an opening which allows black easily to start early aggressive operations. There are some sharper lines, but not against many white setups. The problem seems to be that it is white who chooses between positional or tactical approaches according to his opening line (Exchange, Panno, Advance, Fantasy, Apocalypse etc.).

The merit of the CK seems to be that black has a very solid defence against most of these lines, so activity or aggression don´t happen in the opening.

If you´re looking for sharp tactical black systems the Ruy Lopez might be a better idea, just take off a year and chunk down those books....


Lou
  

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Antillian
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #7 - 11/08/07 at 14:45:23
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Bibs wrote on 11/08/07 at 14:13:47:
Unfortunately many players tend to greatly oversimplify openings lumping them into 'aggressive' and 'passive'. Duffers on chess websites getting upset at you for playing c3 sicilian or something, who claim that catalan is a draw, petroff is dull n stuff. Pay little heed to their ill-informed ramblings.

You can get sufficient activity from caro or indeed any sensible opening and plenty of winning chances. If you are good enough.

Dont need a Belgian government. Just the chocolate and the beer.

Larsen is not a good idea.

Again: 'aggressive'.




Bibs, isn't this a  bit of a strawman arguement?

The issue here is not if the caro-kann is drawish or dull. There is no doubt that you can get active positions sometimes from playing the caro-kann. Of course no opening has 100% one flavour. That is hardly the point.

Yes, Black might get some games in which he will be the aggressor. But that will not be typical of this opening with good play by White. The point is that on balance, the caro simply does not give Black sound aggressive options. And "agressive" was the word used by the original poster.
  

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Willempie
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #6 - 11/08/07 at 14:18:14
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Bibs wrote on 11/08/07 at 14:13:47:
Unfortunately many players tend to greatly oversimplify openings lumping them into 'aggressive' and 'passive'. Duffers on chess websites getting upset at you for playing c3 sicilian or something, who claim that catalan is a draw, petroff is dull n stuff. Pay little heed to their ill-informed ramblings.

You can get sufficient activity from caro or indeed any sensible opening and plenty of winning chances. If you are good enough.

Dont need a Belgian government. Just the chocolate and the beer.

Larsen is not a good idea.

Again: 'aggressive'.


Maybe what it is better described by active rather then agressive. There are not really much sensible lines in which you go for the throat or do a Tal. There are however quite some lines which are more active then your average Nd7 CK.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Bibs
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #5 - 11/08/07 at 14:13:47
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Unfortunately many players tend to greatly oversimplify openings lumping them into 'aggressive' and 'passive'. Duffers on chess websites getting upset at you for playing c3 sicilian or something, who claim that catalan is a draw, petroff is dull n stuff. Pay little heed to their ill-informed ramblings.

You can get sufficient activity from caro or indeed any sensible opening and plenty of winning chances. If you are good enough.

Dont need a Belgian government. Just the chocolate and the beer.

Larsen is not a good idea.

Again: 'aggressive'.

  
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Willempie
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Re: Agressive Caro-Kann
Reply #4 - 11/08/07 at 13:31:21
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An agressive Caro-Kann?
That's like a Belgian government, it doesnt really exist.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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