Latest Updates:
Normal Topic C08: Winawer/Classical with 5.Qg4 (Read 9493 times)
tony37
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 615
Joined: 10/16/10
Re: C08: Winawer/Classical with 5.Qg4
Reply #8 - 08/12/13 at 10:58:45
Post Tools
Michel Barbaut wrote on 08/11/13 at 23:09:57:
On the other hand 8...h5 was not mentionnned in their article in SOS 7, and it seems interesting I would play 9.Nd6+,Bxd6 10.Qxg7 with a complicated fight.

but then there's 10...Nd3+! 11.cxd3 Be5 forcing the exchange of queens: 12.Qg5 Qxg5 13.Bxg5 Bxb2 14.Rb1 Bd4
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michel Barbaut
Junior Member
**
Offline


Do. Or do not. There is
no try

Posts: 58
Location: France (Auberchicourt)
Joined: 03/05/10
Gender: Male
Re: C08: Winawer/Classical with 5.Qg4
Reply #7 - 08/11/13 at 23:09:57
Post Tools
chesslive.de ... interesting, I didn't know this one before  Wink
After 8.Nb5,Bxc5 9.Bf4,a6 10.Bxe5,axb5 11.Qxg7,Rf8 Glek & Leconte give 12.Bf6,Qb6 13.Bd3! sacrificing a pawn and leading to an advantage for White ...  Undecided On the other hand 8...h5 was not mentionnned in their article in SOS 7, and it seems interesting I would play 9.Nd6+,Bxd6 10.Qxg7 with a complicated fight.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tony37
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 615
Joined: 10/16/10
Re: C08: Winawer/Classical with 5.Qg4
Reply #6 - 08/11/13 at 11:35:53
Post Tools
in the database at chesslive.de I find 6 games and black won 5 of them
this shouldn't prove too much on its own but I don't see what white is supposed to do, after 8.Nb5 I think both 8...Bxc5 9.Bf4 (9.Qxg7? Ng6 10.Qh6 e5) a6 10.Qxg7 Rf8 11.Bxe5 axb5 and 8...h5 9.Bf4 (9.Be2 h4 10.Qc3 b6) a6 give black an advantage
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michel Barbaut
Junior Member
**
Offline


Do. Or do not. There is
no try

Posts: 58
Location: France (Auberchicourt)
Joined: 03/05/10
Gender: Male
Re: C08: Winawer/Classical with 5.Qg4
Reply #5 - 08/10/13 at 22:15:34
Post Tools
Back in 10/2009 I was annoying by this line too. I started to analyse it and  I found an antidote. Then I asked Mr Moskalenko what he tought about it. He was kind to answer and at the end of our discussion, he says "Anyway, I don’t see any danger in the Gledhill attack, but of course, some surprising effect."
According to tony37 :"6.dxc5 Nxe5 7.Qg3 Nbc6 scores very well for black" ... I check in Megadatabase 2013 and found only 2 games  Sad ... so I wonder if it really scores well for black ? Tony37 could you tell us more about this one ? Thx.
After 6.dxc5 Nxe5 7.Qg3 Nbc6 the correct move is 8.Nb5 if White wants to play for an attack. Unfortunately, as I said before, I've found a way to stop the white attack.
Let's go : a) - 8...Be7 was my first attempt to improve the variation for black, but in fact it's a waste of time : 9.Qxg7!,Ng6 10.Nf3,a6 and now not 11.Nc3??,Bf8 12.Bg5,Bxg7 13.Bxd8,Kxd8 -+ but 11.Bd3!,axb5 12.Bxg6,Rf8 13.Bxh7,Bf6 14.Qh6 and Black is near to be busted
             b) 8...a6! is the key move. Why ? Because if you let White plays, there are threats with Qg3+Bf4+Nb5. So : 9.Nd6+,Bxd6 10.Qxg7 (10.cxd6?,0-0 11.Bf4,Qxd6 and if 12.Nf3??,Nxf3+ 13.Qxf3,Qb4+ -+) 10...Ng6 11.cxd6,Qxd6 12.Nf3,Bd7 13.Bd3 (13.Be2,0-0-0 14.0-0,Rhg8 15.Qh6,Nce7 and I really like Black here) 13...0-0-0 intending 14...e5 with an attack for Black. But Moskalenko : "in variation 8…a6 you can play 12…e5!?, instead of …Bd7." is better anyway.
It's just some of the lines I've done 4 years ago now. Am I alone ? Give us your antidote of the Gledhill too !!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tony37
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 615
Joined: 10/16/10
Re: C08: Winawer/Classical with 5.Qg4
Reply #4 - 08/09/13 at 21:28:52
Post Tools
6.dxc5 Nxe5 7.Qg3 Nbc6 scores very well for black
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Lanark
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 47
Joined: 07/24/13
Re: C08: Winawer/Classical with 5.Qg4
Reply #3 - 08/09/13 at 21:04:25
Post Tools
I still wonder what Black should play against the Gledhill with 6.dxc5.

I think it's a dangerous line to face as Black, and in the SOS article that is mentioned in this thread practically all variations end with at least a slight edge for White.

But there has to be a good antidote, otherwise this line would be played and discussed a lot more often.

The latest books that cover the Steinitz French don't give much advice. Antic & Maksimovic and Eingorn don't even mention 5.Qg4 and Watson doesn't cover 6.dxc5.

Does anyone know what Black's best continuation after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Qg4 c5 6.dxc5 should be?

dom's line 6...Nc6 7.Nf3 h5 at least looks quite interesting and isn't mentioned by Glek & Leconte in SOS 7.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fernando Semprun
Senior Member
****
Offline


Be nice to others. Life
is to be enjoyed!

Posts: 402
Location: Madrid
Joined: 04/29/03
Gender: Male
Re: Winawer/Classical with 5.Qg4
Reply #2 - 04/01/08 at 11:31:08
Post Tools
I've played 5.Qg4 for 30 years (after Spassky's victory over Uhlmann in 1976), but to be honest, it is pretty bad. I have even beaten IM Javier Ruiz with it, but was lost after the opening.

Problem with main line French IMHO is that black gets to choose from a number of (very) viable options, and white must know them all!

I normally played 6.Nf3 (as Spassky did) and could even agree that 6.dc5 is stronger, but tends to confuse black less. The advantage of Nf3 is that sometimes black reacts badly and it is crushed quickly!
  

Fernando Semprun
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: Winawer/Classical with 5.Qg4
Reply #1 - 03/11/08 at 22:23:33
Post Tools
anti-classical or..."Gledill variation"

Here are an URL (french language) about it: http://64cases.blogspot.com/2007/08/la-variante-gledhill.html ... it's the blog of Mr and Mrs Leconte. Maria Lepeina Leconte is one women french champion. Both of them know well French defence (I can testify from my lost game two weeks ago in McCutcheon).

Coming back to the subject...blog paper from August 2007 and subject is SOS N°7 (authors: Igor Glek et Jean Olivier Leconte).

One analysis of the game Marshall-Marockzy,USA 1926 is here: http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/lake_hopatcong/1926/java/marshall-maroc...

I am interested to know what is White plan after 5.Qg4 c5 6.dxc5!? Nc6
Black has plan to take on e5 with tempo.

A) 7.Nf3 h5 8. Qf4 (8.Qg3 h4 9.Qg4 Ndxe5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Qf4 Nc6 and White has an early e6-e5 pawn move to free his position) Bxc5=

B) 7.Qg3 Qa5 8.Bd2 Qxc5

C) 7.f4 Nb4 (c2 pawn is very weak) 8.Qd1 Bxc5

D) 7.Be3 h5 and difficult to play with d4 pawn fork threat
  

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CraigEvans
God Member
*****
Offline


If I can't sacrifice a
pawn, I'll throw my rook
in

Posts: 588
Location: Bryn, South Wales
Joined: 07/14/03
Gender: Male
C08: Winawer/Classical with 5.Qg4
03/11/08 at 18:53:43
Post Tools
Guys, two lines I'm not sure about the level of discussion on here (I must confess I've not gone through all 21 pages of threads, however), are the move orders:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.Qg4 (Recommended in Dangerous Weapons)
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Qg4 (Recommended in SOS 7)

In both cases white intends 5...Ne7 6.dxc5 and 5...c5 6.dxc5 respectively. Now I've scored very heavily with the former (anti-winawer weapon), and am yet to try the latter anti-classical (due to my love affair with Haldane's 5.Qh5), but in the recent SOS book things looked very, very promisong for white. Have lines been found which put either out of commission which are not mentioned in the various sources? Or are they still punching above their weight?
« Last Edit: 07/29/11 at 18:20:46 by dom »  

"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me.

"If others have seen further than me, it is because giants have been standing on my shoulders."
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo