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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NEW BDG BOOK (Read 151972 times)
SWJediknight
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #156 - 03/08/11 at 03:40:55
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Databases suggest that most of the time Black castles quickly, and 6...Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0 is the only line given in Fritz 10's openings book.  Maybe it's just an automatic reaction by analogy with the Studier Attack, when Black has no good alternative to quick castling, but a few of us agreed a couple of pages ago that Black can consider alternatives in the "Long Bogo".

I gave the sample line 6...c6 7.Qd2 Bg7 8.0-0-0 Bf5 9.Bh6 Bxh6 10.Qxh6 Nbd7 11.Bc4 e6 12.h3 Qe7 13.g4 Be4 14.Rhf1 0-0-0, with a similar kind of situation to  Lev Gutman's recommendation against the early ...c6 lines.  Black still has the extra pawn but White has a lot of pressure down the f-file and Black has weaknesses on the kingside.

The idea of deferring ...Bg7 even longer is pretty interesting as well.  After 7...Nbd7 8.Bc4 Nb6 9.Bb3 a5 10.a4 Nd5, I would personally be happy to take White after 11.0-0 (I think castling kingside makes more sense here) and aiming for long-term chances down the e and f-files.  White can also try 8.0-0-0, e.g. 8...Nb6 9.Bd3 Be6 10.Rhe1 with ideas of Bxf6 and Ne5, and if 10...Bg7 then 11.Bh6.  I don't think these lines are objectively any better for Black than automatic castling (all of these resulting positions seem about equal), but they reduce the risk of being mated quickly.
  
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Dragonslayer
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #155 - 03/07/11 at 21:44:00
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Jonathan Tait wrote on 02/25/11 at 22:12:52:
Dragonslayer wrote on 02/25/11 at 15:08:54:
Yes 6.Bf4 is interesting.
But what if Black does not play ...Bg7 and castles into the attack. Any modern/Pirc player will recognize this consideration against the 150 attack, while it is also seen in the Dragon that Black postpones 0-0.
6.Bf4 c6 was mentioned in Kaissiber IIRC, but only briefly. Scheerer's book simply continues 6...Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0.


I dunno. After 6 Bf4 Black hardly ever plays anything but 6...Bg7 (in the databases), and after 7 Qd2 hardly anything but 7...0-0. Okay, 6...c6 is sometimes seen, but then 7 Qd2 is nearly always met by 7...Bg7 and 8 0-0-0 by 8...0-0, so it comes to the same thing.

Also, it seems from the stats (a rough 50:50 percentage split) that Black has nothing objectively to worry about anyway. If 6 Bf4 was shown to be terribly strong then Black might have to think about other moves, but it only really gives White a playable position.


Against a GM in one game I had 6...c6 7.Qd2 Nbd7 (please explain why Black should be in such a rush to castle?) 8.Bc4 Nb6 9.Bb3 a5 10.a4 Nd5 and I never got anything. Rybka thinks it is almost compensation, but any concrete try soon runs out of steam.
I believe I gave this line in the forum some years ago.
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #154 - 03/07/11 at 10:54:02
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Reading over the suggested lines (and checking them with Fritz) it seems that White can practically force compensation-for-a-pawn lines with 4.Nxe4 Qxd4 5.Qe2, 4...exd4 5.Bb5+ and 4...Nc6 5.Bb5 (in both cases with a quick Qe2 to follow). 

After both 4...exd4 and 4...Nc6, 5.Nf3 is also reasonable for White but has the drawback of making it hard to avoid simplifcations on d4 after 4...exd4 5.Nf3 Bb4+ 6.c3 Bf5 and 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Qd5.
  
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flaviddude
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #153 - 03/07/11 at 05:05:06
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Gambit wrote on 03/06/11 at 15:10:28:
Well, after 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 e5 there is another option open: the Rasmussen Attack, 4 Nge2.
But, if you want to keep play sharp and complicated, 4 Nxe4 is the way to go.


My copy of the book has just come to hand.

Scheerer devotes no less than 36 pages to the Lemberger Variation dealing with all four main
variations in depth.

4. dxe5
4.Nge2
4.Qh5
4.Nxe4

I have not yet compared Scheerer's analysis with my own secret analysis but what he says is very very good. What I like is that has found lots of antidotes given in various books and dealt with them very well.

Australia's newest FM has been giving me considerable trouble with the Lemberger so I have been examining it in depth. 
  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #152 - 03/06/11 at 15:10:28
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Well, after 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 e5 there is another option open: the Rasmussen Attack, 4 Nge2.
But, if you want to keep play sharp and complicated, 4 Nxe4 is the way to go.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #151 - 03/06/11 at 06:51:45
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Quote:
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5!?
At least in my preliminary analysis, The mainline of the Blackmar Diemer that starts after 5.Nxf3 would be much harder to 'refute', people have stated problems with Scheerer's analysis on this forum and rightly so, but since 3...e5 would be my move against the BDG, I investigated them only for academic interest. Yes i hate that term 'refute' as well, but i was just wondering what Scheerer recommends against this.


He believes 4.Nxe4 is White's best option.
  
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Arcticmonkey
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #150 - 03/06/11 at 02:33:17
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Sorry, my comment was not clear about 1.d4 Nf6.
I meant after 1.d4 d5 the book would recommend 2.e4 instead of 2.Nc3, avoiding the line 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e4 Nxe4!
As far as 4.Nxe4 dxe4 5.Be3 goes as suggested, Black can hold on to the pawn with 5...Bf5 and that seems good for Black given by Dembo.
That's kind of why i thought the Blackmar Diemer Gambit wasn't really played against 1...Nf6, unless you started with like, 2.f3!?

Anyway, i was more interested in how Scheerer simply responds to:
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5!?
At least in my preliminary analysis, The mainline of the Blackmar Diemer that starts after 5.Nxf3 would be much harder to 'refute', people have stated problems with Scheerer's analysis on this forum and rightly so, but since 3...e5 would be my move against the BDG, I investigated them only for academic interest. Yes i hate that term 'refute' as well, but i was just wondering what Scheerer recommends against this.
  
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Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #149 - 03/05/11 at 23:58:25
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Fair enough, SWJediKnight.
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #148 - 03/05/11 at 21:48:58
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Actually, 5.Bf4 e6 6.f3 e3 isn't an unreasonable idea for Black as White has to waste a tempo with Bc1-f4xe3 (though 6...Bd6! is much stronger in that line).   Conversely after 5.Be3 e6, 6.f3 is indeed probably best.

The critical tests of 5.Be3 are 5...Bf5 (when 6.g4, or perhaps 6.Bc4 and 7.g4, is the best approach) and 5...Nc6.  Against 5...Nc6 Scheerer offers 6.d5 Nb4 7.c4 e6 8.a3 Nd3+ 9.Bxd3 cxd3 10.Qxd3, which is fine for White, though I think 7...e5 8.a3 Na6 is far more critical and may well be a bit better for Black.  Instead perhaps 5...Nc6 6.Ne2 with the idea 7.Ng3 (reminiscent of the Zilbermints Gambit in the Englund) is worth considering, as 6...Bf5 7.Ng3 Bg6, attempting to transpose to favourable 5...Bf5 6.Ng3 lines, doesn't work for Black after 8.d5!.
  
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Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #147 - 03/05/11 at 02:06:15
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Yes, you are right. After 5 Be3, Black cannot chicken out of the gambit. Say, 5...e6 6 f3! and the chicken move 6...e3 is no longer allowed.

Grin
  
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flaviddude
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #146 - 03/05/11 at 01:42:52
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My copy should reach my mail box on Monday morning.

Thanks to all the people who have posted on the BDG on this site.

My opinion is that "The slower the time control the sounder Gambits must be". Based on this rule of thumb then BDG should be unleashed in blitz and allegro and against selected opponents at tournament speed. Nevertheless it  gets reasonable results in ICCF fixed openings tournaments.

One further point is to unleash it in late rounds in weekenders. It is much harder to defend when you are tired then it is to attack.

Next weekend is a big Australian weekender with players ranging from GM's to novices. Maybe I will mix up BDGs and Veresovs from "A ferocious Opening repertoire" by Lakdawala. Incidentally the Lakdawala book should be useful to any player of the BDG as it gives interesting lines against all sorts of attempts by black to dodge the BDG. Some I have played for yonks for example "The Albin-Chatard attack which scores really well on my 6,000,00 game database. I misses a couple of places where white can transpose back to the BDG but the this may not be respectable enough for Lakdawala.
  

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SWJediknight
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #145 - 03/04/11 at 21:23:43
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The Hubsch (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4!? Nxe4) is covered in the last chapter of the book.  Christoph recommends 5.Bf4, which used to be my preference, but having seen the strength of 5...e6 6.Qd2 c5! (mentioned and correctly assessed as bad for White in the book, and also suggested independently by MNb) I'm not so sure, and today my preference would be 5.Be3 which is analysed in the book without any clear-cut objections being uncovered for Black.

Tim McGrew covered 1.d4 Nf6 2.e4? in one if his online articles but it essentially gives up a pawn for a fraction of a pawn's worth of compensation- at least after 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4 White has some hope of getting decent compensation against decent play!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #144 - 03/04/11 at 17:43:58
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Arcticmonkey wrote on 02/28/11 at 16:18:28:
There's another line which sort of avoids it after 1.d4 Nf6, which is 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4 Nxe4! (However i think the book recommends 2.e4 so it avoids that). 


What, 1.d4 Nf6 2.e4??
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #143 - 03/04/11 at 15:56:40
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SWJediknight wrote on 02/18/11 at 21:04:05:
I got the book yesterday.  Interestingly Scheerer recommends a lot of the same lines as I use, but I think looking over his analysis of the Hubsch, if anything 5.Be3 (which I hadn't previously considered) may be a better bet than 5.Bf4, as he reached the same conclusion as MNb and I reached in the other thread; I posted that after 6.Qd2 c5
Quote:
In that line White appears to have nothing better than 7.0-0-0 Nc6 8.Ne2 cxd4 9.Nxd4 Nxd4 10.Qxd4 Qxd4 11.Rxd4 Bc5 12.Rxe4 Bxf2 and Black maintains the extra pawn in a simplified position

Not a problem if one's opponents keep playing 5...Bd6 (as in one of my own games back in 2007) and allowing White decent compensation, but I think this ...c5 idea makes 5.Bf4 problematic.

I've only skim-read bits of it so far but it looks like an excellent book with very thorough coverage of the lines, and certainly makes a better attempt at being objective than any other analysis that I've seen of this opening (and yes, 6.Bf4 followed by Qd2 is the recommendation against 5...g6, with White coming out quite well).


Disclaimer: I am no BDG expert.  But I was looking at the Bf4 line on the train to work for fun and one idea is to omit Qd2 and play 6. Bc4 instead, anticipating 6....c5 and planning to push with 7.d5.  White plays a similar line in the French Nf6 Tarrasch after the unusual Ne4.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #142 - 03/03/11 at 07:48:53
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motörhead wrote on 03/02/11 at 21:59:09:
MNb wrote on 03/02/11 at 20:50:38:
Well, heck, so the book is not perfect. What book is? It's a poor chessplayer who switches his/her brains off when browsing through a book.

In the line 13.Qh5 the verdict Black is better is a bit premature. After 16.Rae1 Qc6 17.Nxd8 Kxd8 White has quite a lead in development. Now I am not sure how to continue - White can go for the King with 18.Re8+ or safely round up pawn d4.
Another option is 13.Qd2. Black has several defensive options, but chosing a safe one is no cup of tea:
a) 13...f5 14.Rae1 (the simple idea) fxe4 15.Rxe4 Bb4 16.Qxb4 Qxg5 17.Rxe6 Kd8 18.Rf7 Kc8 19.Ree7.
b) 13...Bc5 14.Rae1 0-0 15.Nxh7.
c) 13...Be7 14.Rae1 0-0 15.Nf6+ Qxf6 16.Rxf6 Bxf6 17.Ne4 and Rybka thinks Black is slightly better (probably because of counting wood) but I don't.
d) 13...d3 might be best and now I am too lazy to find out if White is better after either 14.Rad1, 14.Rae1, 14.Nxf7 or 14.Qxd3.

Btw: have you slept 'til Hammersmith?


No man, that's simply Lemmy's law: you can't sleep til Hammersmith (which after all still is the best Motörhead-live-album yet - but this isn't the end or, eh Wink)

Thanks for your variations. You have been there before, or? May well be that you have detected that cave (hole in the variaton) first. I came across it some month ago while collecting and checking some material on the Euwe.

I havn't checked your variations yet in detail. Your are right, in the "main line" with 13.Qh5  16.Rae1 may well be more precise. I think White has to go for 18.Re8+ to tie Black down to the greatest extend. Nevertheless: The party isn't over yet, or?

On your 13.Qd2 I think your line c looks quite natural. I would hold it with Rybka. Nothing against you, as your are a creative guy. But how do you want to proceed? I don't know how White will get grips on the position, say after 17...Be5. At least the game doesn't take the normal BDG-attacking pattern, or?

So one thing should be clear: The cake isn't eaten yet. 6...c5may not be premature but deserves further consideration - or given in the chess punctuation: !? .


I'd say you're basically correct in all of this but I still think these omissions or errors are relatively minor.  As for the variation, I'm fairly confident it's dynamically equal but I'm not sure this is the best White has either so it may all be irrelevant.
  
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