ChessPub Forum - English Reversed Dragon

(UTC)

Latest Updates:

English, Flank - 15 Apr Anti-Sicilians - 09 Apr French Defence - 04 Apr

ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › Flank Openings › English 1...e5 › English Reversed Dragon

(Moderators: proustiskeen, Hadron)

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Page Index Toggle

Pages: [1]

Topic Tools

Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies)

English Reversed Dragon (Read 23566 times)

TonyRo God Member Offline I'm gonna crack your skull! Posts: 1826 Location: Cleveland, OH Joined: 11/26/07 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #22 - 10/20/14 at 19:23:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	I think this line is one of White's best options to really get an interesting and complicated game with good attacking chances. I also think that Black's best resources are not well publicized, which is good for anyone interested in playing it - most of the high level games in this variation have been routs.


	IP Logged

GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3152 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #21 - 10/19/14 at 09:40:36	Post Tools	Print Post
	fling wrote on 10/19/14 at 07:12:22: Wasn't this or something similar played by Nakamura quite recently, btw? Yes, and it's been extensively covered on the main site.


	WWW Facebook Twitter IP Logged

fling God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1591 Joined: 01/21/11 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #20 - 10/19/14 at 07:12:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks for the suggestion! I'll have a look at it (although I am not sure it gives that much of an advantage, just a different type of position than the normal ones). I have tried various set-ups with an early e3 when playing blitz and bullet. Sometimes a problem with both g3 and e3 played that early, but in this line it could work. Wasn't this or something similar played by Nakamura quite recently, btw?


	IP Logged

tony37 God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Joined: 10/16/10	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #19 - 10/18/14 at 21:33:06	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.Nc3 Nb6 6.e3 Nc6 7.Nge2 may be another option... or 6.b3 instead...


	IP Logged

fling God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1591 Joined: 01/21/11 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #18 - 10/18/14 at 19:36:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	I was just looking at the Reversed Dragon in preparation for my future games this year, and realized I don't like the main lines after Nc3 for White. Too much theory. On the other hand, Nbd2, as recommended in The Dynamic English, is not that easy either, actually. Partly, because of the move mentioned in the original post. I have the same move in my notes, for my Black repertoire! After 20 ...Nxb4! White is practically lost, as there is an improvement on Bourquin-Vnukov, 2000. Davies recommendation of 15. Bxd4 seems to lead to equality at best for White. My question is, is the recommendation what is covered in the notes to Thiede-Graf, 2003, or has there been anything else found in this line? And if so, I can't actually find a good way for White to any advantage in this line either...
	« Last Edit: 10/18/14 at 21:11:06 by fling »

	IP Logged

nyoke God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 593 Location: BELGIUM Joined: 12/31/06 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #17 - 02/15/09 at 21:44:02	Post Tools	Print Post
	Never mind; he's a Torre player...


	IP Logged

GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3152 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #16 - 02/15/09 at 13:36:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	TimS wrote on 02/15/09 at 10:51:20: Rather short-sighted, on the face of it - an update like this would surely prompt more sales of the book Well that's what I thought. In fact they didn't even like me writing for ChessPublishing.com, reckoned that contravened some clause in the DE book contract! Now that I think of it, at the time I was so annoyed that I remember promising never to write for Gambit again! It looks like they might have to find someone else to do a 2nd edition!!


	WWW Facebook Twitter IP Logged

TimS Senior Member Offline Posts: 458 Location: London Joined: 11/02/05	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #15 - 02/15/09 at 10:51:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	GMTonyKosten wrote on 02/14/09 at 16:04:30: Having just defended Gambit ... Way back in 1999 (do any subscribers remember the old LHS Navigation bar in Flash which made funny noises?) I wrote a Dynamic English Update page on which I covered any new ideas or possible changes. However, I then received a very unpleasant threatening email from Burgess claiming that this "material impacts on your contract", and we had to stop it! Rather short-sighted, on the face of it - an update like this would surely prompt more sales of the book


	IP Logged

GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3152 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #14 - 02/14/09 at 16:04:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	Having just defended Gambit ... Way back in 1999 (do any subscribers remember the old LHS Navigation bar in Flash which made funny noises?) I wrote a Dynamic English Update page on which I covered any new ideas or possible changes. However, I then received a very unpleasant threatening email from Burgess claiming that this "material impacts on your contract", and we had to stop it!
	« Last Edit: 02/14/09 at 17:04:56 by GMTonyKosten »

	WWW Facebook Twitter IP Logged

GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3152 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #13 - 02/14/09 at 15:22:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	To be fair to Gambit they have asked me if I want to do an updated edition several times, but I just don't have the time I'm afraid - too busy working on Chesspublishing.com!


	WWW Facebook Twitter IP Logged

BlunderKing YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 34 Joined: 02/13/09	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #12 - 02/14/09 at 13:38:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	Willempie wrote on 02/14/09 at 13:08:39: BlunderKing wrote on 02/14/09 at 07:22:52: Hi, i didn't expect to get a whole variation provided for nothing. But not even a hint : look at move xyz, that's a little bit poor in my humble opinon. And the given move in a very popular variation is a blunder. Look at the graf game. The poor white player followed Tony and was lost without any chance. I would call it customer service. There are no new functions, the old functions simply don't do what they were promised to do. But let's stop. Nobody wants to talk about a solution. So, i simply have to get a better book about english. This one looks good, but has to be taken out of service. It's not nice from the publishers to keep on selling it without modifications. It was a waste of money. Thanks and bye. The book is how old? If you use your old Java reference books you are bound to find problems with it as well. It's the difference between buying a book or a service. Or to use the IT terminology if you buy a program you can get bug fixes, but not changes to the functionality. Whence the reason you sell support with the product. As to the line I dont like e3 with the plan of pushing d4, I am always happy when white tries similar plans in this line. I'd go Rc1, Rd1 and Nc4 (in some order) and then try pushing d4 without e3. Still I doubt this line would scare me off playing it as black. I can't buy Java 1.2 books at my book dealer . But I've bought a fresh printed dynamic english book (2006). Gambitbooks should label it: once upon a time, this was a opening book. No, please check every line before using it seriously. I didn't expect, that the lines are up to date, but thought they are still playable without being smashed in a couple of moves. The Rd1, Rc1 and Nc4 looks good, thanks for your input ! . I like the idea to transfer the d2 knight to c5 vs. e4 and the f3 K to d2 to protect the b3 pawn. But i've to check it out. Thank you.


	IP Logged

Willempie God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 4312 Location: Holland Joined: 01/07/05	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #11 - 02/14/09 at 13:08:39	Post Tools	Print Post
	BlunderKing wrote on 02/14/09 at 07:22:52: Hi, i didn't expect to get a whole variation provided for nothing. But not even a hint : look at move xyz, that's a little bit poor in my humble opinon. And the given move in a very popular variation is a blunder. Look at the graf game. The poor white player followed Tony and was lost without any chance. I would call it customer service. There are no new functions, the old functions simply don't do what they were promised to do. But let's stop. Nobody wants to talk about a solution. So, i simply have to get a better book about english. This one looks good, but has to be taken out of service. It's not nice from the publishers to keep on selling it without modifications. It was a waste of money. Thanks and bye. The book is how old? If you use your old Java reference books you are bound to find problems with it as well. It's the difference between buying a book or a service. Or to use the IT terminology if you buy a program you can get bug fixes, but not changes to the functionality. Whence the reason you sell support with the product. As to the line I dont like e3 with the plan of pushing d4, I am always happy when white tries similar plans in this line. I'd go Rc1, Rd1 and Nc4 (in some order) and then try pushing d4 without e3. Still I doubt this line would scare me off playing it as black.

	If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
	IP Logged

BlunderKing YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 34 Joined: 02/13/09	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #10 - 02/14/09 at 11:53:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	slates wrote on 02/14/09 at 11:44:24: Chess Stars, for example, published three versions of the excellent QGA book by Sakaev/Semkov - not many purchasers of the first book would expect free updates in the form of the second and third editions. Authors need to make a living and buying their books or paying for Chesspub access is a way to help them do this. I don't blame Tony for this, i blame gambitbooks to keep on selling outdated "opening" books. I've bought this book a couple of weeks ago and nobody told me, that I've to purchase a chesspublishing membership too, to get some major lines working. Chessstars update their books, you always get the modern theory, when you buy the book now. That's the difference. They don't sell their outdated stuff like gambitbooks. Gambitbooks should pay Tony for an update or stop to reprint the old stuff as an opening book.


	IP Logged

slates God Member Offline Posts: 507 Location: England Joined: 01/27/05 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #9 - 02/14/09 at 11:44:24	Post Tools	Print Post
	GMTonyKosten wrote on 02/13/09 at 14:35:56: I dealt with this line in some detail on the site many years ago - see the Roadmap!! To recapitulate: Firstly, there is nothing wrong with 13 e3, second, yes there are improvements, and third, I prefer another 13th move now. I would say that this constitutes enough of a 'hint' to the original poster, actually. How would it be possible, or at least practical, to constantly update all chess books as soon as a move hits a temporary obstacle after publication? I don't think there would be many people holding the view that this should happen free of charge. Often books are out of date in some lines between completion by author and publication. I'm sure the original poster is well aware of this and therefore I'm wasting time stating the obvious, but other than an occasional generous online update from Quality Chess I can't recall many publishers/authors offering ongoing maintenance for free. Chess Stars, for example, published three versions of the excellent QGA book by Sakaev/Semkov - not many purchasers of the first book would expect free updates in the form of the second and third editions. Authors need to make a living and buying their books or paying for Chesspub access is a way to help them do this. As for Tony's book being 'a waste of money' based on your perception of one particular move (which Tony believes is actually still playable) I think that's nonsense. I have the book and have learnt a lot from it. If I were to read it more thoroughly I would still learn a lot more, too, despite it's date of publication.


	IP Logged

BlunderKing YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 34 Joined: 02/13/09	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #8 - 02/14/09 at 07:22:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	Willempie wrote on 02/14/09 at 00:30:14: BlunderKing wrote on 02/13/09 at 21:00:04: ups, so i 've to pay for the bug fix I work as a programmer, I've to try this with my customers You call it an upgrade. That's what we do Hi, i didn't expect to get a whole variation provided for nothing. But not even a hint : look at move xyz, that's a little bit poor in my humble opinon. And the given move in a very popular variation is a blunder. Look at the graf game. The poor white player followed Tony and was lost without any chance. I would call it customer service. There are no new functions, the old functions simply don't do what they were promised to do. But let's stop. Nobody wants to talk about a solution. So, i simply have to get a better book about english. This one looks good, but has to be taken out of service. It's not nice from the publishers to keep on selling it without modifications. It was a waste of money. Thanks and bye.


	IP Logged

Willempie God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 4312 Location: Holland Joined: 01/07/05	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #7 - 02/14/09 at 00:30:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	BlunderKing wrote on 02/13/09 at 21:00:04: ups, so i 've to pay for the bug fix I work as a programmer, I've to try this with my customers You call it an upgrade. That's what we do

	If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
	IP Logged

BlunderKing YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 34 Joined: 02/13/09	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #6 - 02/13/09 at 22:04:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	[quote author=nmga link=1234528763/0#5 date=1234561114]What a delightfully barmy analogy![/quote] who are you? Do you pay for bugfixes? Great, i d like to get you as my customer ;D most of the authors i know do provide an errata page and don't try to make money with their bugs. Ok, it's a old book. And ok, it seems not to be a clever idea to buy old chess books about openings. I've learned my lessons. I hope, the other lines with ! - moves are still playable. This !-Line is simply lost.


	IP Logged

Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1947 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #5 - 02/13/09 at 21:38:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	What a delightfully barmy analogy!


	IP Logged

BlunderKing YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 34 Joined: 02/13/09	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #4 - 02/13/09 at 21:00:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	ups, so i 've to pay for the bug fix I work as a programmer, I've to try this with my customers


	IP Logged

GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3152 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #3 - 02/13/09 at 20:53:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	It's not in a post, it's analyzed on the main ChessPublishing.com site of course.


	WWW Facebook Twitter IP Logged

BlunderKing YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 34 Joined: 02/13/09	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #2 - 02/13/09 at 14:51:06	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hi Tony, thanks for your reply. Hmh, i'm too stupid to find the old post. Are you back to Rfd1? The whole setup seems to have a very bad score. I can't find any win in my database (players > 2300 ELO), but quite a lot of nice losts . After e3 there seems to be no exit from the road to a bad pos.


	IP Logged

GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3152 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: English Reversed Dragon Reply #1 - 02/13/09 at 14:35:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	I dealt with this line in some detail on the site many years ago - see the Roadmap!! To recapitulate: Firstly, there is nothing wrong with 13 e3, second, yes there are improvements, and third, I prefer another 13th move now.


	WWW Facebook Twitter IP Logged

BlunderKing YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 34 Joined: 02/13/09	English Reversed Dragon 02/13/09 at 12:39:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hi, i own the nice Kosten english book, but it seems to be a little outdated now. I'm preparing for a local tournament and my opp always plays the e5 line. I've checked the line (book p.48/49 and Tony gives 13. e3 a !. But it seems, that the pos after Rfd8, 14.d4 exd 15. Nxd4 Nxd4 16.Bxd4 c5 17. Bxc5 Rac8 18.b4 Nd5 19.Nb3 b6 20.e4 Nxb4! is totally bad for white. So the ! should be a ?? For those without the book (are there any ): c4 e5 g3 Nf6 Bg2 d5 cxd Nxd5 Nf3 Nc6 0-0 Nb6 d3 Be7 Nbd2 0-0 a3 a5 b3 Be6 Bb2 f6 Qc2 Qd7 e3 (!)(?) are there any improvements for white? thanks!


	IP Logged

Page Index Toggle

Pages: [1]

Topic Tools

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Bookmarks:

del.icio.us

Digg

Google

Google+

reddit

StumbleUpon

Yahoo

« Board Index ‹ Board Top

Top

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.

Valid XHTML

Valid CSS

Powered by Perl

Source Forge