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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C01: French Exchange for White (Read 16842 times)
ghenghisclown
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #38 - 10/07/10 at 09:54:18
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TN wrote on 10/07/10 at 07:12:38:
varggrav wrote on 10/07/10 at 06:41:31:
I had a recent OTB game that went

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8.Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 O-O 10. O-O Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4 Be5 13. Bxe5 Nxe5 14. Bb3
Ng4 15. Ng3 h5!? 16. h3 h4 *

and I quickly got a bad position as White, but I have a feeling white should be able to get a signifigant advantage. Any thoughts?


Was your opponent French?


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TN
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #37 - 10/07/10 at 07:12:38
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varggrav wrote on 10/07/10 at 06:41:31:
I had a recent OTB game that went

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8.Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 O-O 10. O-O Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4 Be5 13. Bxe5 Nxe5 14. Bb3
Ng4 15. Ng3 h5!? 16. h3 h4 *

and I quickly got a bad position as White, but I have a feeling white should be able to get a signifigant advantage. Any thoughts?


Was your opponent French?
  

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varggrav
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #36 - 10/07/10 at 06:16:30
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Oh yes, I missed a move. Thanks. Mainly I commented because against the MacCutcheon and Winawer you exchange on d5 and the rest seems to fit well together as opposed to a 3. ed repertoire.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #35 - 10/07/10 at 04:41:40
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I misread and thought you gave 5. Bxf6 Bxf6 6. Nf3 a6 7. g3.  5...gf looks odd indeed; maybe you're thinking of the line 4...de 5. Nxe4 Be7 6. Bxf6 gf?
  
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varggrav
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #34 - 10/07/10 at 03:29:23
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d) 3...Nf6 4 Bg5 Be7 5 Bxf6 gxf6 6 Nf3 a6 7 g3


6...a6 is played in this line to prepare ...b5. I don't understand your comment.
  
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #33 - 10/06/10 at 22:51:34
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Well, (b) is just the main line, standardly considered slightly better for White.  After the alternative 5. Bxf6 Bxf6 6. Nf3 I don't think I've ever seen 6...a6; 6...c5 has long been given in books as equalizing.
  
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varggrav
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #32 - 10/06/10 at 22:25:06
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As a recovering 1 d4 player I've found some interesting lines to play against the French that seem to give Black serious practical problems. A repertoire might be

1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3

a) 3...Bb4 4 cxd5
b) 3...Nf6 4 Bg5 Be7 5 e5 Nfd7 6 Bxe7 Qxe7 7 f4
c) 3...Nf6 4 Bg5 Bb4 5 cxd5
d) 3...Nf6 4 Bg5 Be7 5 Bxf6 gxf6 6 Nf3 a6 7 g3
e) 3...Nf6 4 Bg5 Be7 5 Bxf6 Bxf6 6 Nf3 , et

There's other lines I still have to work out but I think it's a good starting place and a good alternative to the straight exchange.

This was all recommended by Jesse Kraai, a leading expert on the French. I've had quite good results with it and the games usually end up more interesting than the normal exchange and I've found there's not a lot to know at my level (2100)
  
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Keano
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #31 - 02/09/10 at 16:22:28
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Crapov wrote on 02/19/09 at 00:43:31:
If you're gonna play the exchange i think the only move that troubles black a bit is 4.c4.


I think Kasparovs 4.Nf3 intending 5.c4 is more accurate - after 4.c4 Bb4+!? 5.Nc3 Ne7 Black gets quite a dynamic game.

After 4.Nf3 a good question is how Black should continue: 4...Bd6, 4...Nc6, 4....Nf6 (the GM favourite), 4...c6

Today I was looking at an interesting possibility for Black : 4.Nf3 Bd6 5.c4 Nf6!? 6.Nc3 0-0 7.cxd5 Re8+ 8.Be2 h6(!) I´ve analysed this position a bit on my pocket chess-site at lunch time so I give no guarantees, but I couldnt find anything for White here. Black will follow-up ...Nbd7-b6 and usually ...Nf6xd5.
  
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Keano
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #30 - 10/13/09 at 10:05:38
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Dink Heckler wrote on 10/12/09 at 17:15:46:
So I guess the idea is to hoover off the dark squared Bishops while preventing Black from exchanging light squared bishops, and then nibble round the edges?


Something like that, although in practice in the line with 6...Be6 and 7...Qd7 Black will also eventually trade off his bishop on f5. Also 6...Nce7!? has a good reputation, although there I get the impression it is more based on some famous victories for Black in the past where White played weakly. As Black 6...Be6 would be my choice.
  
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Dink Heckler
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #29 - 10/12/09 at 17:15:46
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Thanks, Keano, worth a look...wasn't too keen on that 4. c4 stuff.

So I guess the idea is to hoover off the dark squared Bishops while preventing Black from exchanging light squared bishops, and then nibble round the edges?
  

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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #28 - 10/11/09 at 00:35:35
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I think we had this discussion under another thread, but I just thought I'd mention my article on the Exchange French with c4, with complete bibliography:

http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/kenilworthian/2009/08/french-defense-monte-ca...
  
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Keano
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #27 - 10/08/09 at 09:12:40
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Dink Heckler wrote on 02/18/09 at 15:46:04:
I'm looking for some approaches to twist Black's tail in the French Exchange. Now most of the literature seems to be written from a Black perspective, and has the flavour of 'well, if some snivelling draw-seeking wretched plays this against you, here's how to liven things up'. Now some of this might be solid, but a lot of it is probably just bravado, rally the troops stuff.
I don't think I've ever seen a serious treatment from White's perspective. So, motivational guff apart, how does White set about setting Black some issues in the Exchange?


Well, here is a line I have a little bit of respect for:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 (here you have to be ready for 4...c5!? also which leads to a different type of game) 5.c3 Bd6 6.Qf3!?

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Objectively you'd think White must be a tiny bit better here, but for some reason there is strange psychological stuff going on here - in many of the games where a lot of pieces are exchanged Black grinds down a win in the endgame. There cant be anything wrong with this for White though...
  
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Keano
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #26 - 10/06/09 at 11:09:01
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Paddy - 4.c4 is not really a popular move amongst strong players , apart from Miezis who told me once he got to 2600 not knowing any theory  Huh

I was thinking actually of a different order in the exchange which comes to the QGA line - 4.Nf3 Bd6 5.c4 (now making more sense) and here I remember Bareev getting a very comfortable game against Short with ...dxc4 going back into the QGA line.

For some reason in the 4.c4 move-order this transposition is not so popular, probably because here there are even better options, for instance Watsons ...Bb4+ line!?
« Last Edit: 10/06/09 at 12:50:08 by Keano »  
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #25 - 02/20/09 at 17:18:48
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Keano wrote on 02/20/09 at 09:09:43:
I agree White may get an edge in this line, nevertheless there are highly rated Frenchies I have seen who after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5?! exd5 4.c4!? have just played 4...dxc4 5.Bxc4 Bd6 and we transpose to that e3 QGA line - the Black knight eventually goes to c6 and actually the position remains quite murky.
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Can you give some examples please? I am having difficulty finding any games where a strong player as Black plays 4...dxc4 in the French sequence. In Megabase the position after 5 Bxc4 almost always arises from a QGA (or, a recent trend, from an Albin Declined!).
  
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Keano
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #24 - 02/20/09 at 09:09:43
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I agree White may get an edge in this line, nevertheless there are highly rated Frenchies I have seen who after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5?! exd5 4.c4!? have just played 4...dxc4 5.Bxc4 Bd6 and we transpose to that e3 QGA line - the Black knight eventually goes to c6 and actually the position remains quite murky.

Actually in Avrukhs excellent book this is one of the only things I disagreed with about his move-order decisions. As White after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 I would prefer to go 3.Nf3 and allow the ...Bg4 lines, which are not popular anyhow and which I believe are worse for Black than the line above.
  
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