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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin (Read 222476 times)
parisestmagique
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #365 - 10/25/10 at 15:23:32
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Marin does not recommand to play the Botvinnik with White against c5 e5 by Black.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #364 - 10/25/10 at 14:54:38
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So then, doesn't this devolve into Botvinnik vs. Botvinnik?  In that context, is White's tempo likely to be all that influential?  The games I have seen with the mutual Botvinnik setups have been dreadfully dull.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #363 - 10/24/10 at 22:20:00
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Konstriktor wrote on 10/24/10 at 19:11:35:
@Gilchrist
But you say in the c5 lines with the Botvinniksetup he has some improvements?
Would be great!

I like the Botvinniksetup against e5 where I always have a good game. So if it's playable against c5... Curious what Marin comes up with.


The chapter in Volume 2 is devoted to the Botvinnik against ...c5. I have the book right now in front of me and he does have improvements. I do not want to quote them, but when you get the book you will see. I think the Botvinnik against both Black playing simultaneously ...c5 and ...e5 is covered in Volume 3.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #362 - 10/24/10 at 19:11:35
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@Gilchrist
But you say in the c5 lines with the Botvinniksetup he has some improvements?
Would be great!

I like the Botvinniksetup against e5 where I always have a good game. So if it's playable against c5... Curious what Marin comes up with.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #361 - 10/24/10 at 03:35:57
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kylemeister wrote on 10/24/10 at 00:26:25:
Wouldn't be the first time such a view has been held; the last few editions of ECO/small ECO have given that sort of thing (Botvinnik with ...e5) as leading to equality or the like rather than advantage for White.


Is not the Botvinnik against ...e5 KID setups covered by Marin with various improvements in Volume 1? I was referring to the Volume 2 chapter on the Anti-KID setup which is Botvinnik as well, except Black excludes ...e5 in favour of ...c5.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #360 - 10/24/10 at 00:26:25
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Wouldn't be the first time such a view has been held; the last few editions of ECO/small ECO have given that sort of thing (Botvinnik with ...e5) as leading to equality or the like rather than advantage for White.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #359 - 10/23/10 at 23:44:46
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 10/23/10 at 23:39:50:
Without risking copyright protocol, I do not want to quote the book so much, but I will say that I believe Marin has found enough improvements to make the Botvinnik setup against the black KID system a viable variation to strive for a +/=.


I hope he's using Chesspub as a reference since Watson showed some variations where Black equalized even with the ...e5 setup.  Although I couldn't find a way to and advantage it wouldn't really surprise me if he has since I've never completely trusted this variation for Black.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #358 - 10/23/10 at 23:39:50
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Without risking copyright protocol, I do not want to quote the book so much, but I will say that I believe Marin has found enough improvements to make the Botvinnik setup against the black KID system a viable variation to strive for a +/=.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #357 - 10/22/10 at 19:04:03
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In the introduction to the first volume, Marin states that he had found a way to a theoretical advantage against every line starting with 1. c4 and 2. g3.

My copy of Volumes 2 and 3 are in the mail. In the meantime, I am curious, to anyone who has already  received the books, does Marin actually claim that his anti KID line leads to a theoretical advantage?

Or is it more along the lines that he concedes that White really has to transpose to the finachetto KID to gain an objective advantage, but since that is already covered by Avrukh, he is offering an alternative practical weapon consistent with the rest of the repertoire.

Personally, I do think too much a fuss is often made by amateurs about whether a line leads to a theoretical advantage or not, but nonetheless, I am curious.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #356 - 10/22/10 at 17:56:01
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So is the most ambitious method of obtaining an advantage is to transpose to the Fianchetto KID?
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #355 - 10/22/10 at 09:19:52
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I am afraid not ... One interesting system is called i think the Flohr : 1.c4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 0-0 5.d4 d6 6.e3!? with Nge2 to follow. The most famous is Petrossian - Larsen 0-1 1966.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #354 - 10/22/10 at 06:55:00
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 10/22/10 at 04:17:14:
BPaulsen wrote on 10/22/10 at 04:08:39:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 10/22/10 at 02:29:34:
Is not the Botvinnik the only method of remaining within English territory against a black King's Indian setup?


No, there's the old c4/Nc3/Nf3/g3/Bg2/0-0/d3 (in some order) then charge your queenside pawns set-up.

Of course, producing an edge there is pretty far fetched. It's a good practical line, at any rate.


Sorry, I meant to ask if the Botvinnik was the best try for a White advantage against a black KID setup. That setup you mentioned is covered in Strategic Opening Repertoire I think.


I wouldn't be surprised if the ...e5 KID against the Botvinnik was better for White, but I haven't been able to find even the slightest advantage against the ...c5/...Nc6/...Ne8 setups mentioned earlier in this thread. Hopefully Marin's recommendations will shed new light on this line.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #353 - 10/22/10 at 04:17:14
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BPaulsen wrote on 10/22/10 at 04:08:39:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 10/22/10 at 02:29:34:
Is not the Botvinnik the only method of remaining within English territory against a black King's Indian setup?


No, there's the old c4/Nc3/Nf3/g3/Bg2/0-0/d3 (in some order) then charge your queenside pawns set-up.

Of course, producing an edge there is pretty far fetched. It's a good practical line, at any rate.


Sorry, I meant to ask if the Botvinnik was the best try for a White advantage against a black KID setup. That setup you mentioned is covered in Strategic Opening Repertoire I think.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #352 - 10/22/10 at 04:08:39
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 10/22/10 at 02:29:34:
Is not the Botvinnik the only method of remaining within English territory against a black King's Indian setup?


No, there's the old c4/Nc3/Nf3/g3/Bg2/0-0/d3 (in some order) then charge your queenside pawns set-up.

Of course, producing an edge there is pretty far fetched. It's a good practical line, at any rate.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #351 - 10/22/10 at 02:29:34
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Is not the Botvinnik the only method of remaining within English territory against a black King's Indian setup?
  

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