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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Larsens B21 (Read 6023 times)
nyoke
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #14 - 11/05/09 at 13:14:48
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Just the confidence boost I needed !
  
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linksspringer
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #13 - 10/26/09 at 10:17:58
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Larsen's Grand Prix strikes at the 17th European Team Championship 2009: Cheparinov blown away by McShane in only 20 moves!  Shocked

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1560824
  
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MarkG
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #12 - 08/24/09 at 15:47:27
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linksspringer wrote on 08/24/09 at 12:34:35:
It's playable of course. Play through some high-level games to see if it suits your style. And also look at some games with colours reversed.

The mystery of reversed openings. On chessok, the scoring percentages (white win, black win, draw) after for example 1.e4  c5  2.f4  g6  3.Nf3  Bg7  4.Be2  Nc6  5.d3  d6 are: 22% ; 40.7% ; 37.3% (59 games). Looks disastrous.
But now look at the colours reversed position: 1.c4  e5  2.g3  f5  3.Bg2  Nf6  4.Nc3  d6  5.d3  Be7. Now the score is: 35.1% ; 37.2% ; 27.7% (430 games). Go figure.


I would guess that there is probably a rating discrepancy in favor of the fianchettoing side - especially, in the sicilian/bird case (not many very strong players have played Be2 there). Otherwise, the numbers may suggest that this structure fundamentally favors the fianchetto  and that the extra tempo is essentially meaningless.

I like how John Nunn characterizes these reverse systems (I am paraphrasing here, I can dig up the exact reference if anyone is interested)  - they are designed to equalize as black and having an extra tempo may make that objective easier but it doesn't alter the basic evaluation of the position.
  
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linksspringer
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #11 - 08/24/09 at 12:34:35
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It's playable of course. Play through some high-level games to see if it suits your style. And also look at some games with colours reversed.

The mystery of reversed openings. On chessok, the scoring percentages (white win, black win, draw) after for example 1.e4  c5  2.f4  g6  3.Nf3  Bg7  4.Be2  Nc6  5.d3  d6 are: 22% ; 40.7% ; 37.3% (59 games). Looks disastrous.
But now look at the colours reversed position: 1.c4  e5  2.g3  f5  3.Bg2  Nf6  4.Nc3  d6  5.d3  Be7. Now the score is: 35.1% ; 37.2% ; 27.7% (430 games). Go figure.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #10 - 08/23/09 at 13:12:16
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Goodness gracious me. It is move 3.
It is fine. Another way to play.

Why do people insist on asking questions at move 2, 3, 4? Oh, tedium.
  
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nyoke
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #9 - 08/23/09 at 08:00:35
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Never mind move-orders, it's positions I'm interested in (or tabyas if you like). So if you prefer the sequence 1. e4, c5 2.f4, not d5 (Right, that would be a  Tal gambit) 3. Be2.
  
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MarkG
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #8 - 08/22/09 at 19:55:09
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nyoke wrote on 08/22/09 at 19:33:06:
Yeah well it's the transposition to a sicilian that I had in mind, excluding the non-sicilian x=d5...


Your original sequence was 1 f4 c5 2. e4 when 2... d5! is a sicilian - called the Tal Gambit, in fact.

Reading the other posts here, I guess you really meant 1. f4 c5 2. Nf3 when I agree that 2...d5 is not a sicilian. In that latter sequence, I would be inclined to just play 2... Nf6 preventing 3. e4. Even so, after say 2...g6, I find it hard to believe that  4. Be2 is particularly terrifying. The main merit I can see is that a subsequent d4 by white may result in black being move-ordered into an open sicilian (specifically a dragon) that is outside his normal repertoire.
  
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MNb
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #7 - 08/22/09 at 19:52:44
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I still regret I did not win this game:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1209432759
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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nyoke
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #6 - 08/22/09 at 19:33:06
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Yeah well it's the transposition to a sicilian that I had in mind, excluding the non-sicilian x=d5...
  
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linksspringer
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #5 - 08/22/09 at 16:31:34
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trw wrote on 08/22/09 at 01:37:37:
linksspringer wrote on 08/21/09 at 22:27:14:
I think Taylor's suggestion is 1.f4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.e4 Bg7 4.Be2, avoiding the 2.e4 d5 line.



but this isn't a sicillian at all! It is the birds opening!


Tell that to nyoke!  Wink
Although after 3.e4 it does transpose to a Sicilian.
  
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trw
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #4 - 08/22/09 at 01:37:37
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linksspringer wrote on 08/21/09 at 22:27:14:
I think Taylor's suggestion is 1.f4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.e4 Bg7 4.Be2, avoiding the 2.e4 d5 line.



but this isn't a sicillian at all! It is the birds opening!
  
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linksspringer
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #3 - 08/21/09 at 22:27:14
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I think Taylor's suggestion is 1.f4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.e4 Bg7 4.Be2, avoiding the 2.e4 d5 line.
  
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trw
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #2 - 08/21/09 at 20:36:56
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MarkG wrote on 08/20/09 at 20:27:54:
nyoke wrote on 08/20/09 at 14:15:44:
What do you people think of Taylors suggestion : 1. f4, c5 2. e4, x 3.Be2 ?


Not much if x = d5! which is the best move there.


Agree after e4 c5 f4 d5... white would have to be crazy to play Be2.
  
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MarkG
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Re: Larsens B21
Reply #1 - 08/20/09 at 20:27:54
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nyoke wrote on 08/20/09 at 14:15:44:
What do you people think of Taylors suggestion : 1. f4, c5 2. e4, x 3.Be2 ?


Not much if x = d5! which is the best move there.
  
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nyoke
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Larsens B21
08/20/09 at 14:15:44
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What do you people think of Taylors suggestion : 1. f4, c5 2. e4, x 3.Be2 ?
  
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