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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Best Defense against an English Opening (Read 42715 times)
linksspringer
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #41 - 12/12/09 at 21:39:02
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belgian wrote on 12/12/09 at 06:39:50:
TonyRo wrote on 10/23/09 at 17:13:00:
Tell that to Larsen, who played 1. g3 d5 2. Bg2 e5 3. Nf3!? many times.


A bit off topic, but I cannot resist.

Good ol' Brent even punted 3. b4!?. (I remember playing this in a rated game; my opponent almost fell from his chair!)

After 3.- Bxb4 4. c4 it seems White gets enough play...

Pierre.


Stefan Bücker published two articles on this:
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss30.pdf
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss31.pdf
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #40 - 12/12/09 at 11:09:14
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[quote]After 3.- Bxb4 4. c4 it seems White gets enough play...[/quote]

Really? Tricky, I grant you, but why can't Black just play 4 ...Nf6? -- e.g. 5 cd 0-0 6 Nc3 c6, or 6 Qb3 Na6?

But I repeat my question of Reply 33. How does White get even a 'nibble' here?
  
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belgian
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #39 - 12/12/09 at 06:39:50
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TonyRo wrote on 10/23/09 at 17:13:00:
Tell that to Larsen, who played 1. g3 d5 2. Bg2 e5 3. Nf3!? many times.


A bit off topic, but I cannot resist.

Good ol' Brent even punted 3. b4!?. (I remember playing this in a rated game; my opponent almost fell from his chair!)

After 3.- Bxb4 4. c4 it seems White gets enough play...

Pierre.
  
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #38 - 12/11/09 at 12:20:12
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tracke wrote on 12/11/09 at 11:29:48:
In my (honest!) opinion the solution is to know everything and to be flexible:

1 c4 Nf6! and then: 2 d4 e6! , 2 Nc3 e5! , 2 g3 c6! , 2 Nf3 c5! , 2 (others) g6!

tracke  Smiley


1. c4 Nf6 2. g3 e6 is fine as well - if you're going to allow the Catalan with your 2. d4 move order, the Reti-Catalan (1. c4 Nf6 2. g3 e6 3. Bg2 d5 4. Nf3 dxc4) is hardly a big enough reason to not go into what you already know if white opts for 4. d4 instead. That said, 2...c6 as you gave is good, too.

And if you're going to play the Symmetrical English after 1. c4 Nf6 2. Nf3, then there's little to no reason not to just play it immediately, given that 2. Nc3 and 2. g3 in the Symmetrical aren't a huge deal.
  

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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #37 - 12/11/09 at 11:29:48
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In my (honest!) opinion the solution is to know everything and to be flexible:

1 c4 Nf6! and then: 2 d4 e6! , 2 Nc3 e5! , 2 g3 c6! , 2 Nf3 c5! , 2 (others) g6!

tracke  Smiley
  
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #36 - 12/10/09 at 18:14:36
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MNb wrote on 10/02/09 at 04:07:31:
Equalizing after 1.c4 is no less an achievement than after 1.d4 and 1.e4. Creating winning chances is also equally problematic.

do you mean for Black or for White?


Personally I'm a champion of the gray pieces.  They're the ones that I usually have to play with, anyway.
  

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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #35 - 12/10/09 at 14:20:31
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MNb wrote on 10/02/09 at 04:07:31:
Equalizing after 1.c4 is no less an achievement than after 1.d4 and 1.e4. Creating winning chances is also equally problematic.

do you mean for Black or for White?
  
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #34 - 12/08/09 at 15:36:29
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I agree with people earlier stating that the discussion on "which is blacks best move after 1.c4?" is rather pointless...it is not like anyone ever will be able to prove thir case anyway. That said - to me it feels like 1..e5 could/should be the most principled answer to 1.c4, but from a practical viewpoint it leads to more play and is therefore more fun to meet than 1...c5. 1..c6 and 1..e6 are problematic in the way that if one wants to avoid the mainline Slav, Semislav and QGD it is difficult to believe that white will get a real advantage. Then again on most levels it is more important to reach positions one understand and like than getting a theoretical advantage so dodging the critical queens gambit lines can make perfect sense.
  
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #33 - 10/23/09 at 20:19:39
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That said, I've a memory of looking at this a while back and (if I'm not getting mixed up) not fancying White too much after 3 ...Nc6 4 0-0 Nf6 5 c4 (not the only move of course, but L's move) dc. Anyone got thoughts on whether/how White can set Black problems after that?
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #32 - 10/23/09 at 18:48:52
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Cool Larsen games!  Smiley
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #31 - 10/23/09 at 18:42:23
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I have no idea what you're talking about.  Wink
  
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #30 - 10/23/09 at 18:14:04
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TonyRo wrote on 10/23/09 at 17:13:00:
It takes a lot of guts to declare a completely natural looking developing 2nd move a mistake. Tell that to Larsen, who played 1. g3 d5 2. e5 3. Nf3!? many times.


I'm assuming white's second move there was Bg2 Wink
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #29 - 10/23/09 at 17:13:00
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It takes a lot of guts to declare a completely natural looking developing 2nd move a mistake. Tell that to Larsen, who played 1. g3 d5 2. Bg2 e5 3. Nf3!? many times.
« Last Edit: 10/23/09 at 18:42:04 by TonyRo »  
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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #28 - 10/23/09 at 14:52:39
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It's a question of what your principles are.  If you are with Tarrasch that the most principled move is the one that takes the most of the center, then 1...e5 is the "most principled" reply to both 1.e4 and 1.c4.  If your first principle is to resist White's establishment of a strong center and/or to obtain a central pawn majority, then 1...c5 is the most principled reply, again to both 1.e4 and 1.c4.  This latter idea is both prophylactic and dynamic; the former is if White delays d4; the latter if he plays it, when Black obtains the central pawn majority in exchange for his disadvantage in space.

Principles don't matter much in chess, so I'm not sure it's worth debating this very much more.

P.S. I don't think White's 2.Nf3 is in any way impeded by 1...e5.  White can hardly object to playing an Alekhine's with "...c5" already in.  It may not be best, but it's not objectionable.
  

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Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #27 - 10/23/09 at 12:17:42
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Perhaps. Note that there are as many lines in 1.c4 e5 where the knight goes to f3 than to e2.
  
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