Just play the Leningrad Dutch or the Iljin-Zjenevsky and you will have even less trouble with c4/Nf3.

Just play the King's Indian and you will never have trouble with c4/Sf3...

If I play the benoni as black, what defense against the english will allow me to transpose back into the benoni if white is willing? Or should I just focus on playing the most aggressive system against the english? What would that be?

BPaulsen wrote on 12/15/09 at 06:36:29:


Fair enough.  Actually I did understand that, I just wanted to hear someone to argue the case that avoiding the "Pure Symmetrical" is enough reason to build up such a vast repertoire just to deal with the English.  The opportunity to play the early ...e5 is the reason I personally like 2...Nc6.

My point about "interesting" was only that it's rather circular to defend a repertoire choice based on what's interesting, since as you point out, one's interest is subjective, and naturally tends to follow one's repertoire choices.

To come back to the "Pure Symmetrical," personally I'm always happy to enter, I'm not sure what to call them, highly closed but rather balanced positions, as Black.  For example, the Closed Sicilian with 2...Nc6 or the Symmetrical English.  Closed positions where, unlike the Mar del Plata or the French, Black hasn't radically conceded half the board (all right, I admit that I find those intriguing also).  On the one hand the value of the tempo diminishes, and on the other one's ability to unbalance the game in one way or another seems to be enhanced.  But I'm off in Meta-Theory Land or at any rate, expressing mere personal preference.

Really I think the strongest criticism of 1...Nf6 is that it offers White the golden opportunity to return to 1.d4, 2.c4, but I suppose that playing 1.c4 is a kind of signal that White isn't going to do that.

BPaulsen wrote on 12/13/09 at 22:16:16:


What is interesting to someone is a subjective matter.  Personally I have no lack of interest in play after 1...c5.

Whether these choices are best are not is quite debatable. But more importantly, it is simply not practical for a regular player to learn so many defenses against White's fourth most popular opening choice.

Markovich wrote on 12/13/09 at 21:35:48:


1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 e5 is easier for black to navigate than the comparable 1. c4 e5 2. g3, which is why it can be included. It's also more interesting than the Symmetrical English that comes up after 1. c4 c5 2. Nc3. Definitely not far-fetched.

There is logic in his choices - he plays variations of the Symmetrical when they aren't god-awful boring (2. Nc3/2. g3) due to white's move order with Nf3, and when white does try one of those choices he responds in a way that'll produce an interesting game.

And losing out on 1. c4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 is not a big deal theoretically, since it's questionable as to if that's black's best theoretical option in the Symmetrical English anyway. 2...Nf6 retains the Hedgehog, Double Fianchetto, and is in better theoretical shape against early d4s on move three, or four, than 2...Nc6 is after 3. d4.