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Normal Topic new transposition out of Morra Gambit? (Read 8022 times)
MNb
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Re: new transposition out of Morra Gambit?
Reply #6 - 10/16/09 at 11:35:51
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You have told us that before indeed. I can't remember if I mentioned it, but 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.Qe2 Nc6 6.0-0 a6 and g6 offer transpositions to the Morra Gambit proper that do not favour White.
  

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TimS
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Re: new transposition out of Morra Gambit?
Reply #5 - 10/16/09 at 10:42:44
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MNb wrote on 10/16/09 at 02:41:41:
The big problem with 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.Nf3 is of course d6 and after 4.c3?! Nf6!

Hence my preference, when I played it, for 4.Bc4, and if 4...Nf6, then 5.Qe2, with c3 to come
  
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MNb
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Re: new transposition out of Morra Gambit?
Reply #4 - 10/16/09 at 02:41:41
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3...Qa5 is certainly worth a try. White's best might be standard development: 4.Nf3 Nc6 (Nf6 5.e5 dxc3 6.Nxc3 Ne4 7.Bf4) Nf6 6.Qe2 d6 and Palkovi is afraid of 7...Bg4, so he gives 7.h3 dxc3 8.Nxc3 e6 9.0-0 Be7 10.Be3 0-0 11.a3. I am not so sure: 7.0-0 Bg4 8.cxd4 Nxd4 9.Bxf7+!? or 7...dxc3 8.Nxc3 Bg4 9.h3, 9.Be3 or 9.Bf4 with interesting play.
TN wrote on 10/15/09 at 12:04:22:
If White tries to avoid some of these anti lines with 3.Nf3, then transposing to the O'Kelly Variation with 3...a6 is strong since ...a6 is a common move in the Morra and the 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 has a dubious reputation for White.

This is wrong logic. After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 a6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3 (no Morra Gambit player will ever play 4.Nxd4) dxc3 5.Nxc3 White has lost nothing compared to 3.c3. So 3...a6 is not especially strong.
The big problem with 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.Nf3 is of course d6 and after 4.c3?! Nf6!
  

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TicklyTim
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Re: new transposition out of Morra Gambit?
Reply #3 - 10/15/09 at 15:33:23
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TN wrote on 10/15/09 at 12:04:22:
I haven't subjected this sideline to close attention, but after 4.Nf3 White seems to have an improved Morra Gambit, e.g. 4...Nc6 5.b4 Qb6 (5...Nb4 6.cb4 Bb4 7.Bd2 favours White) 6.b5 Nce7 7.cd4 and White is definitely better.


Did a little bit of research and how about:
4.Nf3 Nc6 5.b4 Qc7 6.b5 Ne5 - maybe whites pawns will be a little loose?
Or maybe get away with the greedy:
4.Nf3 Nf6 5.e5 dxc3 6.Nc3 Ne4

Doubt I'd play these in a serious game, but maybe worth a punt in blitz?
  
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TicklyTim
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Re: new transposition out of Morra Gambit?
Reply #2 - 10/15/09 at 12:33:50
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Yep, I play 3..Nf6.
Just thought that if 2.c3 Qa5 half playable, that this line might be a better version.
I personally wouldn't play Qa5 on move 2 or 3.
Thinking about it, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned this at all!
  
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TN
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Re: new transposition out of Morra Gambit?
Reply #1 - 10/15/09 at 12:04:22
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I haven't subjected this sideline to close attention, but after 4.Nf3 White seems to have an improved Morra Gambit, e.g. 4...Nc6 5.b4 Qb6 (5...Nb4 6.cb4 Bb4 7.Bd2 favours White) 6.b5 Nce7 7.cd4 and White is definitely better, or 4...dc3 5.Nc3 when the queen is misplaced, e.g. 5...e6 6.Bd3 (6.Bd2 Qc7 is less convincing) 6...Bb4 7.0-0 Bc3?! (probably not best but otherwise Black's position makes a sad impression) 8.bc3 Qc3 9.Bf4 and even without a board in front of me, White's position seems extremely appealing.

If you want to 'avoid' the Morra Accepted, 3...Nf6, 3...g6 and even 3...d3 seem more logical choices to me. There is also 3...d5, but I have little faith in that particular variation.

If White tries to avoid some of these anti lines with 3.Nf3, then transposing to the O'Kelly Variation with 3...a6 is strong since ...a6 is a common move in the Morra and the 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 has a dubious reputation for White.

Finally, there is 2...cd4 3.c3 b6!? which probably isn't entirely sound, but is precisely the sort of line that will irritate Morra Gambit players.
  

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TicklyTim
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new transposition out of Morra Gambit?
10/15/09 at 11:38:23
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I seem to recall that 1.e4 c5 2.c3 Qa5 is supposedly half decent (not losing). I haven't read any material on it, but recall that an early SOS covered it.
Now I'm assuming 3.d4 is not the best choice for white and that black then plays 3..cxd4.
So my thought/suggestion is, in the Morra how about playing:
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 Qa5 as an improved 2.c3 Qa5?
Obviously this all depends on how ok/bad the 2...Qa5 is, but I'm guessing the 3.d4 are the better lines for black in that system (compared to others). How good, I don't know.
I'm sure this isn't a new idea, but just crossed my mind!
Anyone think it's playable?
  
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