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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Tarrasch in Black and White (Read 323615 times)
tp2205
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #612 - 05/11/12 at 08:27:55
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PANFR wrote on 05/10/12 at 18:48:21:
On the book page 251, 14.Nd2 Nxd2 15.Bxd2 Bd5?! looks suspect due to 16.Nxb6 ab6 17.e4!
So 15...0-0 is probably the better move to play, when Black is only marginally worse.
Also, 15.Qxd2 0-0 16 b4!? looks interesting for white- and 16.b4 looks good after 16...Bd5, too.


How about 15...Bd5 16.Nxb6 Bxg2

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I'm also not terribly fond of Black's position after 10.a3 Ne4 11.Qd3!? 0-0 12.Nc3 Nxc3 13.Qxc3 Be7 (as recommended in p.250) 14.Nd4. It seems to me that white has a comfortable advantage.
Maybe 13...Bb6 (aiming at a quick ...d4) could be a better try for Black?
In short, I don't believe too much in the value of the ...Ne4 sortie.


Nitpicking: you are off by one move here: 9.a3 Ne4 ...,
How about Nxd4 14. Qxd4 Be6 followed by Bf6.
  
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PANFR
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #611 - 05/10/12 at 18:48:21
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On the book page 251, 14.Nd2 Nxd2 15.Bxd2 Bd5?! looks suspect due to 16.Nxb6 ab6 17.e4!
So 15...0-0 is probably the better move to play, when Black is only marginally worse.
Also, 15.Qxd2 0-0 16 b4!? looks interesting for white- and 16.b4 looks good after 16...Bd5, too.

I'm also not terribly fond of Black's position after 10.a3 Ne4 11.Qd3!? 0-0 12.Nc3 Nxc3 13.Qxc3 Be7 (as recommended in p.250) 14.Nd4. It seems to me that white has a comfortable advantage.
Maybe 13...Bb6 (aiming at a quick ...d4) could be a better try for Black?
In short, I don't believe too much in the value of the ...Ne4 sortie.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #610 - 04/09/12 at 21:46:15
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I send a PM with my email.

To be honest i haven't watched Ziegler's DVD except from 1-2 parts. For example i saw that he doesn't give a reliable solution to Aronian's Bf4 line that Kaufman suggests (and Kaufman's coverage is also pretty bad!).
  
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Anon
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #609 - 04/09/12 at 21:16:01
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Amet

What is your email so that I can email my correspondence game in the Tarrasch to you?

I would also be interested in your thoughts about the Ziegler Benoni DVD.



  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #608 - 04/05/12 at 12:20:39
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The position is open for new ideas. After 6.dxc5 d4 7.Na4 i always wanted to analyse 7...Bg4 or 7...Bf5 for example deeper than i did the last time before we settle for 7...Bxc5 in GM 10. I don't have the time to do it now, but if someone is interested we can conduct a collaboration effort in this foroum to see if Black has adequate play in another line than 7...Bxc5.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #607 - 04/04/12 at 20:55:44
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BabySnake wrote on 04/04/12 at 13:22:31:
Perhaps 12. Rc4 Nc6 13. Nxd4 is an attempt to squeeze something from having the bishop pair.


I also analyzed this a bit but couldn't really find an advantage after (for example) 13... Nge7 14. e3 0-0 15. Be2 Rd8 16. 0-0 b5 17. Rc1 Nxd4 18. exd4 Bb7. There are alternatives of course but Black seems equal in all variations.

I'd try to continue with 12. g3 with the possible continuation 12... Nf6 13. Bf4 Qa6 (my engine likes this most) 14. Qxd4 and there may be a slight advantage for White. Or Black has chances to go wrong at least.
  
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BabySnake
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #606 - 04/04/12 at 13:22:31
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Wow, that's an incredibly quick response from the author!! I certainly had not analysed this far! At least quickly I can't punch any holes into this analysis. There are some improvements for white of course, but at best leading to a roughly balanced position it seems.

Perhaps 12. Rc4 Nc6 13. Nxd4 is an attempt to squeeze something from having the bishop pair.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #605 - 04/04/12 at 00:45:36
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On p. 283 after 14. Qd2!, is a possibility to play 14...0-0, with the idea to displace either the bishop on e3 or knight on f3 by capturing later? i.e., 14. Qd2! 0-0 15. Qxb4 Nxb4 16. 0-0 (16. Bc5 Re8+) Re8 with the idea of either/and Nbd5 and Be6 to prevent isolation of the pawn after ...fxe6 and to avoid it by playing ...Rxe6 if exchange. If not, then ...Nbd5 to centralise the knights. Or if 14. Qd2! 0-0 15. 0-0 then 15...Qxd2 16. Nxd2, I think this transposes to the footnote after 15. Kxd2, if I see correctly. If 16. Bxd2 Re8 idea of ...Be6 without compromising pawn structure.
  

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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #604 - 04/03/12 at 16:52:27
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BabySnake wrote on 04/03/12 at 15:35:31:
One interesting move not discussed in the book, that seems promising to me is after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c5 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. dxc5 d4 7. Na4 Bxc5 8. Nxc5 Qa5+ 9. Bd2 Qxc5
10. b4!?

I don't find this move in my database.

Here 10...Nxb4 seems highly dangerous to me so black should play 10...Qb6, but is under considerable pressure after 11.Qa4.


It has been played in some computer games. I think that we should have analysed it in the book. My analysis is this:


1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c5 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. dxc5 d4 7. Na4 Bxc5 8.Nxc5 Qa5+ 9. Bd2 Qxc5 10. b4 Nxb4

Only decent move and the only one played in those games

11. Rc1 Qd6 12. e3 dxe3 13. Bc3

(13. Bb5+ Nc614. Qe2 Nge7 15. Bxe3 Bg4 16. O-O O-O 17. h3 Bxf3 18. Qxf3 Rfd8 seems balanced. Black has an extra pawn to counter the pair of Bishops)

13... Nd5 14.Bb5+ Ke7!

This is the improvement over the only PC game reached this position

15. Bxg7 if not this then Black has no problems

15...Qb4+ 16. Kf1 Qxb5+ 17. Kg1 exf2+ 18. Kxf2 Ngf6 19. Bxh8 Ne4+20. Kg1 f6 21. Qd4 Bf5 22. Bg7 Rc8  and Black wins! So, Black doesn't have any problems what so ever in this line.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention! Smiley


  
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ErictheRed
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #603 - 04/03/12 at 15:58:47
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I just ordered this book last night.  I realize I'm late to the game but I'm looking forward to gettting it.  I could use a new defence to 1.d4, and it looks like there are enough new interpretations of the Tarrasch in this book to pose my under-2400 opponents a lot of problems if they aren't familiar with the new ideas.
  
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BabySnake
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #602 - 04/03/12 at 15:35:31
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One interesting move not discussed in the book, that seems promising to me is after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c5 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. dxc5 d4 7. Na4 Bxc5 8. Nxc5 Qa5+ 9. Bd2 Qxc5
10. b4!?

I don't find this move in my database.

Here 10...Nxb4 seems highly dangerous to me so black should play 10...Qb6, but is under considerable pressure after 11.Qa4.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #601 - 03/26/12 at 07:22:29
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Bresando wrote on 03/23/12 at 16:22:31:
1/2-1/2  Smiley

Ameitanos, i use this occasion to thank you for your kind email full of interesting suggestions. I have been really unpolite and I never sent you an answer. I will try to apply your suggestions, i'm currentlly reading bagirov's book on the IQP and after that i will look at your volume.  Thanks for everything, and good luck for your next book! (since it looks like this one is already doing well on its own Smiley)


Please, nothing impolite about that!

@Gilhrist: Probably he felt that the resulting position is an easy draw with chances for more if Bacrot decides to push for more. It is a pragmatic decision.
  
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #600 - 03/26/12 at 01:34:39
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Why did Delchev play 23...f5 instead of 23...Rfe8? There is no need to relenquish the extra exchange.
  

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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #599 - 03/26/12 at 00:12:29
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Excellent book Jacob and Nikos!  It has revitalized my interest in the Tarrasch.  I've started entering the repertoire into Chess Opening Wizard (formerly Bookup) as I read through it.  Is anyone else doing that as well and want to collaborate?
  
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Bresando
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Re: The Tarrasch in Black and White
Reply #598 - 03/23/12 at 17:06:27
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Of course you're right  Embarrassed I typed in a hurry and my memory served me with the wrong GM...
  
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