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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C40: The Elephant gambit (Read 31852 times)
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #57 - 09/05/18 at 13:30:19
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Any chance to know more about this project, i.e publication date ? Even approximate ...  Wink
  
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Dragonslayer
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #56 - 04/18/18 at 07:59:04
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Don’t trust the machine too much...
I think you will be pleasantly surprised by what we have found after 6.c4.
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #55 - 04/18/18 at 01:48:26
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@an ordinary chessplayer: Thank you for your feedback! You are right, I should have kept the references to my sources.

But as 99% of my analysis is for my own private use, I normally only note my sources in the file and don't enter all the detailed references, as this takes a lot of time and is unnecessary if I don't intend to publish the analysis.

There are only 2 points where a Corbin game was used, and at both points White played in a suboptimal way rather early.
In Kaissiber 22 Rogers gives the remark that White should just give back the pawn on e5 after Qe7 or 0-0, as the control over the dark squares would give him a clearly better game. The machine agrees...

Unfortunately the other Kaissiber articles I possess don't deal with 6.c4, but other variations.

I noticed however by going over Corbin's games that he seemed to experience consistent problems after 6.c4, and that most of his higher rated opponents would play this move.

So "based on" was perhaps a rather strong expression, more appropriate would seem "inspired by".



I get your point about refuting the Elephant, but if it doesn't matter that/if it is already refuted (in several ways, as you state), I am even more curious what the book will look like, as I can't remember a QC book which promoted a refuted opening.

Perhaps this will be a primer?!
Nevertheless the romantic in me is still hoping for an improvement for Black, to make this actually playable on a decent level.  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #54 - 04/15/18 at 11:19:42
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You made me look. I interrupted my endgame work to check your variations. Seems pretty good, about as strong as two or three other "refutations" that I already know about. One thing I wished for was seeing some precise attributions given to Corbin or Kaissiber. The only attribution I saw was the Wall-Rogers 2000 game. If the analysis is "based on" Corbin and Kaissiber, they should be given credit where due.

But anyway the reason I said you definitely didn't kill the Elephant is because it can't be done. It's not really good to begin with, and the practitioners already know that. They don't play it because of its theoretical status, they play it because (a) certain players are helpless against this style of play, and (b) it's entertaining as heck.
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #53 - 04/15/18 at 09:05:26
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@an ordinary chessplayer: how can you be so sure if you haven't taken a look?

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of sympathy for the Black cause, but I couldn't find a line after 6.c4 that looks playable to me.
Perhaps somebody else can?

I remember some threads here which accompanied the process of writing a book (the Tarrasch book of Ntirlis/Aagaard comes to mind), which is a great thing because the exchange of ideas can really advance theory, especially in such a seldom played opening as the Elephant...
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #52 - 04/13/18 at 02:57:41
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You didn’t kill the thread, and you definitely did not kill the Elephant. Maybe everybody is daydreaming about when the announced book will come out. For myself, I haven’t had a chance to look at your analysis - too busy studying endgames.
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #51 - 04/12/18 at 21:12:25
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Uh-oh.

Did I kill the thread with my analysis?
Or even the Elephant?  Shocked
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #50 - 04/08/18 at 05:13:42
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If you manage to get in touch with Corbin, do ask him for his game against GM Julio Becerra played somewhere around 2013 - 2015 I think, this tournament game never made the databases or his book, but any serious game where a GM faces the Elephant is worth a look.
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #49 - 04/07/18 at 22:04:24
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Here is part of the analysis I did some months ago, inspired by Corbin's games which he made available on his site and some old Kaissiber articles.
I came to the conclusion that White is clearly better after 6.c4, and also better after 6.Bb5+ when he doesn't take on c6 but drops the bishop back to e2.

Even the 3.Ne5: lines I found annoying to play, as they often lead to endgames with symmetrical pawns, but the bishop pair for White, which is not exactly inspiring for Black.



@Dragonslayer: I am curious at what point your improvements lie.
The project sounds very interesting, as you have the best publisher in the market, most of their books are simply excellent! I guess I will get the book just out of interest, even if I am not convinced by the opening.
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #48 - 04/07/18 at 11:18:19
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Dragonslayer wrote on 04/05/18 at 16:37:18:
Michael Ayton wrote on 04/03/18 at 11:33:03:
Quote:
would you be interested in selling it? Send me a pm if so.

'Fraid I can't sell it (I might even try playing it sometime! Wink), but do feel free to ask me about anything it says.


fair enough Smiley


I sent you a PM about this Smiley
  

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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #47 - 04/07/18 at 10:06:29
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Sounds like an interesting project indeed.

I always thought that 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d5 3.exd5 Bd6 4.Nc3 is a safe edge for White. If nothing else White can continue in Glek-System style with d3, g3, Bg2, 0-0. But I have to admit I have never looked at it seriously.
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #46 - 04/06/18 at 22:57:27
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Sorry, missed the title earlier. Not a GM rep, I guess.
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #45 - 04/06/18 at 21:51:26
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So, Jacob, John, et al must think this is a pretty reasonable opening by Black, given the books that QC typically publishes (and the occasional remark about perceived lesser efforts/defenses from other publishers). Can you tell us the title (Playing the Elephant Gambit, perhaps)?
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #44 - 04/06/18 at 20:51:13
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 04/06/18 at 09:03:28:
Dragonslayer wrote on 04/05/18 at 16:33:07:
My coauthor is IM Jakob Aabling-Thomsen, and it will be published by Quality Chess and titled The Electrifying Elephant Gambit.

Good to hear about your project. Quality Chess might learn something from your careful research.

You can try this German secondhand chess shop: http://www.schachundmuenzen.de/shop/. It offers "Winning with the Elephant Gambit", saying "Out of Print", but I've put the book in the basket, and the software accepts it.

In the fine Kenilworth list (Michael Goeller) there is one source missing: Friedrich Becker's Fernspiel- und Schachschulung (self-published, 1926). It has 14 correspondence games with 3.exd5 e4 vs some good opponents (e.g. von Bardeleben). An enthusiast's work, his amateurish drawings only add to the fun. Manuel Fruth offers a copy of that Becker book, too.


Dear Stefan
So good to hear from you.
You know, without Kaissiber there would be no book. Rogers’ articles made a great impression on me back in 1998. You set a standard by which every chess writer must measure himself.
Thank you for the info. I hope not to let down everyone’s expectations Smiley

Best regards
Michael
  
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Re: C40: The Elephant gambit
Reply #43 - 04/06/18 at 20:19:09
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TopNotch wrote on 04/06/18 at 17:59:09:
This should make for an interesting project, as very few White Repertoire books take it seriously and as a result provide very skimpy coverage.

An exception to the above would be the following books:

Opening For White According to Anand vol.1 by Khalifman offers a good line that I have used more than once with success OTB. Although full disclosure I know longer use it.

John Shaw in Playing 1. e4: Caro-Kann, 1... e5 and Minor Lines shows it some respect, an offers an interesting Antidote. The engines like his suggestion, but I'm not fully convinced.

An Unbeatable White Repertoire after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 by Larry Evans also offers decent coverage and overall is still quite a good opening book despite its age.

Well that's it off the top of my head, feel free to add to the above list if posters think of something else.

Over and out.


Thx for the pointers! Berliner offers another counter: 1.d4  Wink
  
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