Latest Updates:
Normal Topic Is the Carlsen Variation a viable system? (Read 3781 times)
CapaTal
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Sac, sac, mate!

Posts: 46
Joined: 07/30/07
Re: Is the Carlsen Variation a viable system?
Reply #6 - 04/02/10 at 13:51:53
Post Tools
Here's a fairly new approach 14.Bh6 Nc4 15.Qc1!? that I just noticed recently.  It looks pretty promising for White to me.

[Event "New Delhi Parsvnath op 8th"]
[Site "New Delhi"]
[Date "2010.01.16"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Kravtsiv, Martyn"]
[Black "Lokesh, P."]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B78"]
[WhiteElo "2545"]
[BlackElo "2120"]
[PlyCount "57"]
[EventDate "2010.01.14"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "IND"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2010.01.28"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2
Nc6 9. Bc4 Bd7 10. O-O-O Rc8 11. Bb3 Ne5 12. Kb1 a6 13. h4 h5 14. Bh6 Nc4 15.
Qc1 b5 16. g4 hxg4 17. h5 e5 18. Bg5 exd4 19. h6 Bxh6 20. Rxh6 dxc3 21. Qf4 Nh5
22. Bxd8 Rfxd8 23. Qg5 Re8 24. Bxc4 Rxc4 25. Rxd6 Bf5 26. Rd8 Rc8 27. Rxe8+
Rxe8 28. Rxh5 gxf3 29. Rh1 1-0

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Swiss_Dragon
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 135
Location: Garching
Joined: 05/03/05
Gender: Male
Re: Is the Carlsen Variation a viable system?
Reply #5 - 02/26/10 at 10:25:23
Post Tools
XChess1971 wrote on 02/26/10 at 02:38:22:
After 17...Qb6 the best line is:
18.fxg4! Nc4! 19.Bxc4 Bxd4 20.gxh5! Rxc4 21.Rg3 (21.Nd1 Rfc8! 22.hxg6 Rxc2 23.gxf7+ Kxf7 24.Rh7+ Ke8 25.Re7+ Kd8{only move} 26.Rf7+ Ke8 27.Rgf1 Rc1+{only move} 28.Qxc1 Rxc1+ 29.Kxc1 Qc5+! 30.Kb1 {only move} d5 31.Re7+ Qxe7 32.Bxe7 Kxe7 and the pair of bishops could hold.) 21...Rxc3 (21...Rfc8 22.hxg6!) 22.Rxc3 Qb4 23.hxg6 Bxc3 24.Rh8+!! Kg7 25.Bh6+! Kxh8 26.g7+ Kh7 27.gxf8+! Kg8 (27...Kh8!?) 28.Qxc3 (28.Qg2 Kh8!) Qxc3 29.bxc3 and in this position it is black's move...

The question here is can black survive this ending???.
The white knight is trapped, and the possible "breakthroughs" are e5 and c5. Engines think that this position favors white. I still have my doubts about it. But, still it is interesting for investigation. Black's plan is to keep everything closed or create a mass of black pawns as part of the counterplay. Remember bishop+knight with no pawns against bishop alone is a draw.
Maybe some ending experts such as John Nunn, Pal Benko or Karsten Muller could give us some insight here.
It took me hundreds of hours to get to this point. You evaluate for yourselves.

Albert C. Mooren
Allentown, PA - USA



Hi! I'm not an expert in endings, but let us see what can happen in this ending. Black plays 29...Bc6 followed by e5 and a5 and waits (the b-pawn remains on b7) by moving his bishop between c6, e8 (and a4). White has very limited possibilities. Kd3 is always followed by Bb5+ and if c4 Bc6 c5 dxc5 Kc4 then Black plays b6 and waits with Kh8, Kg8 when White doesn't make progress. In general a c5-breakthrough is no real threat.
The only strong plan for White is to head with his king to g5. Let's say White moves his pawns to a3, c4, c3 and moves his King to g3. If Black takes the pawn on e4, then White's knight escapes to d7, which is probably sufficient for White's win. If he doesn't take on e4, then White plays Kh4, forcing a reaction from Black's side. The only thing Black really can do here is to play f6 (the same move can be played against Kg4, too. In that case Ne6 is not possible and Black will play Kf7 next). Then Ne6 and (assuming the bishop is on c6) Bxe4. It's still unclear whether Black has a draw here, but it seems that's the point where analysis should start. White's king could be on h4, g3 or f2.

EDIT: Let me add a diagram for the critical position.
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* (White to move)
« Last Edit: 02/27/10 at 09:32:12 by Swiss_Dragon »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
XChess1971
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 143
Location: Allentown
Joined: 09/07/04
Gender: Male
Re: Is the Carlsen Variation a viable system?
Reply #4 - 02/26/10 at 02:47:02
Post Tools
Correction: It is not  27.gxf8+! . It is supposed to be 27.gxf8N+! .
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
XChess1971
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 143
Location: Allentown
Joined: 09/07/04
Gender: Male
Re: Is the Carlsen Variation a viable system?
Reply #3 - 02/26/10 at 02:38:22
Post Tools
Hi:

First of all I won't touch 16.Bh6. It doesn't seem to be testing for the variation.
After 16.Rdg1 not one single game was answered with 16...e6. The alternatives are:

a) "Main Variation: 17.Bg5!"

b)17.Bh6 Qf6 transposing to Dominguez Perez - Carlsen with an equal game.
c)17.fxg4 Nf6 18.Bg5 Re8 19.Qh2 a5 with a complex game. Maybe this could be deepened to really know the full truth comparing Khalifman's.
d)17.Nd1 g3 18.Bg5 Qe8 19.Bh6 Kh7
e)17.f4 Nc4 18.Bxc4 Rxc4 19.Rxg4 e5 20.Nf5 exf4 21.Bf2 Rxc3 22.bxc3 Nf6 23.Rxf4 Nxe4 24.Rxe4 Bxf5 with an unclear game.
f)17.Rh2 gxf3 18.Bh6 f2 19.Rxf2 Nf6 with a good position for black.
g)17.a3 gxf3 18.Nd1 Kh7 19.Nf2 Rh8 and black is doing good!.

Going back to 17.Bg5! there are different alternatives:
The "supposedly main one" 17...Qb6.

Other alternatives:
1) 17...Bf6 18.Bh6 Rxc3 (18...Bh8!?; 18...g3!?) 19.bxc3 g3 20.Rxh5 gxh5 21.Rxg3+ Kh7 22.Bxf8 Qxf8 23.f4 Qh6 24. Rg1 Be8 25.Qg2 Ng4 26.f5 with some initiative. But maybe interesting is 24...Ng6.

2)17...Nf6 18.Bh6 Bh8 19.f4! Nc4 20.Bxc4 Rxc4 21.Bxf8 Nh5 22.Nde2 Qxf8 23.Rxg4 Bg7 24.Rg5 Nf6 (supposedly the best) 25.e5 Nh7 26.Rgg1 Bc6 27.Qd3 Bxh1 28.Qxc4 Bc6 29.Nd4 dxe5 30.Nxc6 bxc6 31.fxe5 Bxe5 32.Qxc6 with better prospects for white.

3)17...Qc7 18.Bh6!

After 17...Qb6 the best line is:
18.fxg4! Nc4! 19.Bxc4 Bxd4 20.gxh5! Rxc4 21.Rg3 (21.Nd1 Rfc8! 22.hxg6 Rxc2 23.gxf7+ Kxf7 24.Rh7+ Ke8 25.Re7+ Kd8{only move} 26.Rf7+ Ke8 27.Rgf1 Rc1+{only move} 28.Qxc1 Rxc1+ 29.Kxc1 Qc5+! 30.Kb1 {only move} d5 31.Re7+ Qxe7 32.Bxe7 Kxe7 and the pair of bishops could hold.) 21...Rxc3 (21...Rfc8 22.hxg6!) 22.Rxc3 Qb4 23.hxg6 Bxc3 24.Rh8+!! Kg7 25.Bh6+! Kxh8 26.g7+ Kh7 27.gxf8+! Kg8 (27...Kh8!?) 28.Qxc3 (28.Qg2 Kh8!) Qxc3 29.bxc3 and in this position it is black's move...

The question here is can black survive this ending???.
The white knight is trapped, and the posible "breakthroughs" are e5 and c5. Engines think that this position favors white. I still have my doubts about it. But, still it is interesting for investigation. Black's plan is to keep everything closed or create a mass of black pawns as part of the counterplay. Remember bishop+knight with no pawns against bishop alone is a draw.
Maybe some ending experts such as John Nunn, Pal Benko or Karsten Muller could give us some insight here.
It took me hundreds of hours to get to this point. You evaluate for yourselves.

Albert C. Mooren
Allentown, PA - USA


bragesjo wrote on 02/25/10 at 17:15:43:
Here are some lines and what Khalfiman thought about them in Opening for white according to Anand series.

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "39"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2
Nc6 9. Bc4 Bd7 10. Bb3 Rc8 11. O-O-O Ne5 12. Kb1 a6 13. h4 h5 14. g4 hxg4 15.
h5 Nxh5 16. Rdg1 (16. Bh6 Kh7 {is better avoding Dominuez Perez - Carlsen})
16... e6 17. fxg4 (17. Bh6 {transposes to Dominuez Perez -Carlsen 2008 where
Khalifman called it mutal chanses but white got the slightly better position
if I recall correctly}) 17... Nf6 18. Bg5 {given an exclamtion mark by
Khalifman} Re8 (18... Rxc3 19. Qh2 Rxc2 20. Bxc2 Re8 21. Qh4) (18... Qb6 19.
Qf2) (18... b5 19. Qh2 Re8 {transposes}) 19. Qh2 b5 (19... Qb6 20. Bxf6 Bxf6
21. Nf5) (19... a5 20. a4) (19... Rxc3 20. bxc3 a5 21. a4) (19... Rc5 20. Nce2)
20. Nce2 {with the idea of moving knihgt to f4 square looks dangerous} *


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


Long live the Nimzo Indian

Posts: 1565
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: Is the Carlsen Variation a viable system?
Reply #2 - 02/25/10 at 17:15:43
Post Tools
Here are some lines and what Khalfiman thought about them in Opening for white according to Anand series.

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "39"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2
Nc6 9. Bc4 Bd7 10. Bb3 Rc8 11. O-O-O Ne5 12. Kb1 a6 13. h4 h5 14. g4 hxg4 15.
h5 Nxh5 16. Rdg1 (16. Bh6 Kh7 {is better avoding Dominuez Perez - Carlsen})
16... e6 17. fxg4 (17. Bh6 {transposes to Dominuez Perez -Carlsen 2008 where
Khalifman called it mutal chanses but white got the slightly better position
if I recall correctly}) 17... Nf6 18. Bg5 {given an exclamtion mark by
Khalifman} Re8 (18... Rxc3 19. Qh2 Rxc2 20. Bxc2 Re8 21. Qh4) (18... Qb6 19.
Qf2) (18... b5 19. Qh2 Re8 {transposes}) 19. Qh2 b5 (19... Qb6 20. Bxf6 Bxf6
21. Nf5) (19... a5 20. a4) (19... Rxc3 20. bxc3 a5 21. a4) (19... Rc5 20. Nce2)
20. Nce2 {with the idea of moving knihgt to f4 square looks dangerous} *

  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
XChess1971
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 143
Location: Allentown
Joined: 09/07/04
Gender: Male
Re: Is the Carlsen Variation a viable system?
Reply #1 - 02/25/10 at 00:02:29
Post Tools
Nobody says anything I'll let you run your engines with 16...e6. Opinions are welcome.


XChess1971 wrote on 02/07/10 at 03:04:07:
Many know that after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.Kb1 a6 is what is called the Carlsen Variation due to the one of the first games played by Carlsen as black against Anand.
The hardest try has been 13.h4 h5 14.g4 hxg4 15.h5 Nxh5 16.Rdg1.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
XChess1971
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 143
Location: Allentown
Joined: 09/07/04
Gender: Male
Is the Carlsen Variation a viable system?
02/07/10 at 03:04:07
Post Tools
Many know that after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.Kb1 a6 is what is called the Carlsen Variation due to the one of the first games played by Carlsen as black against Anand.
The hardest try has been 13.h4 h5 14.g4 hxg4 15.h5 Nxh5 16.Rdg1.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo