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Normal Topic A New Max Lange Idea (Read 5651 times)
TonyRo
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Re: A New Max Lange Idea
Reply #6 - 03/08/10 at 21:39:11
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Markovich wrote on 03/08/10 at 19:17:44:
The Max is so old and so heavily analyzed that the idea of something new being found in casual facebook communications is rather droll.  This early g4 is a book move.

The place to start with the Max is Schlecter's edition of the Handbuch and Keres' old Theorie der Schacheroffnungen.  Unless you have these old works in your hand, you really risk reinventing the wheel.  Actually, best be in Cleveland, Ohio when you conduct your Max research, so you can go to the John G. White collection and look up stuff in Deutsche Schachzeitungs and Wiener Schachzeitungs going back into the 1880s.

As a practical matter, Black should steer clear of the Max unless he is a very avid theory hound.


I've actually been to the John G. White collection, and my one complaint is that you can't just peruse the books. They're all kept in a back room, and you need to request the books, and the librarians will go back and get them for you. My friend and I went down there just to check it out, but once you get there and realize none of the books are out, it's quite the buzz-kill.  Angry
  
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Markovich
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Re: A New Max Lange Idea
Reply #5 - 03/08/10 at 19:17:44
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The Max is so old and so heavily analyzed that the idea of something new being found in casual facebook communications is rather droll.  This early g4 is a book move.

The place to start with the Max is Schlecter's edition of the Handbuch and Keres' old Theorie der Schacheroffnungen.  Unless you have these old works in your hand, you really risk reinventing the wheel.  Actually, best be in Cleveland, Ohio when you conduct your Max research, so you can go to the John G. White collection and look up stuff in Deutsche Schachzeitungs and Wiener Schachzeitungs going back into the 1880s.

As a practical matter, Black should steer clear of the Max unless he is a very avid theory hound.
  
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BlkSabb
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Re: A New Max Lange Idea
Reply #4 - 03/07/10 at 21:11:13
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It seems like Marin should have mentioned this in his book.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: A New Max Lange Idea
Reply #3 - 03/07/10 at 20:37:56
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Not exactly new indeed -- they cite Blackburne-Teichmann, Nuremberg 1896.
  
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BlkSabb
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Re: A New Max Lange Idea
Reply #2 - 03/07/10 at 20:29:31
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I was about to alter my post to mention that I left out 13...0-0-0 which I see has been played a few times in the database.  What line do they give that's supposed to lead to an advantage?

Technically I guess 13 f4 isn't really a new idea since it's been played before in 16 games listed in the database.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: A New Max Lange Idea
Reply #1 - 03/07/10 at 20:26:55
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I suppose my first question would be, what about 13...0-0-0, which was given in ECO and NCO as leading to advantage for Black?
  
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BlkSabb
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A New Max Lange Idea
03/07/10 at 20:11:28
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I was reading Facebook the other day and I saw Elizabeth Vicary mention this new idea with f4 in the 11 g4 Max Lange line.  Here is some analysis I did while looking over it:

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2010.03.07"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Vicary Max Lange 11 g4"]
[Black "Facebook post"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C56"]
[Annotator "MSL"]
[PlyCount "67"]
[EventDate "2010.02.21"]
[SourceDate "2010.02.21"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 {Elizabeth Vicary(to Abby Marshall on Facebook) hey, what
do you think of g4 in the mainline max lange, instead of Nce4 (e5 d5 ef dc re1
be6 ng5 qd5 nc3 qf5 g4 qg6 f4 idea f5?) i found it with fritz while writing
opening handouts for kids. or qxf6 nd5 qd8 rxe6? Elizabeth Vicary sorry so g4
qg6 nce4 bb6 f4} 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. d4 exd4 5. O-O Nf6 6. e5 d5 7. exf6 dxc4 8. Re1+
Be6 9. Ng5 Qd5 10. Nc3 Qf5 11. g4 Qg6 (11... Qxf6 {Michael LaRue Alterman did
some Max Lange lectures for Chess.FM a while back and he gives: 11.g4 Qxf6 12.
Nd5 Qd8 13.Rxe6+ fxe6 14.Nxe6 Qd7 ( 14...Qxd5 15.Nxc7+ ) 15.Qe2 Be7 16. Ndxc7+
Kf7 17.Qxc4 Ne5 18.Qb3 Qd6 19.f4 Nxg4 20.Ng5+ Kg6 21.Qd3+ Kh5 ( 21...Kf6 22.
Ne4+ ) 22.Qh3+ Kg6 23.Qxg4 Qb6 24.Nge6+ Kf6 25.Qg5+ Kf7 26. Qxg7#} 12. Nd5 Qd8
13. Rxe6+ {Michael LaRue Hi. I noticed your post and it looks interesting.
Marin gives, "11...Qxf6 12 Nd5 Qd8 13 Rxe6+ fxe6 14 Nxe6 Qd7 and now, for
instance 15 Bh6!? as given by Keres." "Elizabeth Vicary sorry so g4 qg6 nce4
bb6 f4" g4 qg6 nce4 bb6 f4 looks interesting. f4 is unmentioned by Marin in
Beating the Open Games. I'll have to take a deeper look at it.} fxe6 14. Nxe6
Qd7 15. Bh6 $5 (15. Qe2 Be7 16. Ndxc7+ Kf7 17. Qxc4 Ne5 18. Qb3 Qd6 19. f4 Nxg4
20. Ng5+ Kg6 21. Qd3+ Kh5 (21... Kf6 22. Ne4+) 22. Qh3+ Kg6 23. Qxg4 Qb6 24.
Nge6+ Kf6 25. Qg5+ Kf7 26. Qxg7#)) 12. Nce4 Bb6 13. f4 $5 {
Marin doesn't cover this move. p. 135.} (13. fxg7 Qxg7 14. Nxe6 fxe6 15. Bg5
O-O $19) 13... d3+ {The most obvious reply} (13... gxf6 14. f5 Qg7 15. fxe6
fxg5 16. exf7+ Kxf7 17. Qf3+ Kg8 18. Nf6+ Kf8 19. Nxh7+ Kg8 20. Nf6+ Kf8 21.
Nd7+ Kg8 22. Qd5+ Kh7 $18) 14. Be3 gxf6 (14... Bxe3+ 15. Rxe3 gxf6 16. f5 Qh6
17. fxe6 fxg5 18. exf7+ Kxf7) 15. f5 Qh6 16. fxe6 fxg5 17. exf7+ Kxf7 18. cxd3
Rad8 19. Bxb6 axb6 (19... cxb6) 20. Qc1 (20. Qf3+ $6 Kg7 21. dxc4 Rhf8 $11 {
seems to be equal}) 20... Rhe8 21. Qxc4+ Kg7 22. Qc3+ Re5 $1 {
I think Black looks better here at first sight but the engine is disagreeing.}
(22... Rd4 $2 23. Ng3 Kf7 24. Qb3+ Kf8 25. Rf1+) 23. Re2 (23. Re3 Kh8 24. Ng3 {
OK, it would appear that this is the wrong plan for White.  The correct plan
is to double rooks on the f-file like in the line starting with 23 Re2.} (24.
Rf3 {would come to the same thing as the line with 23 Re2}) 24... Qd6 25. Rae1
Rde8 26. Rxe5 Rxe5 27. Kg2 Nd4 28. Ne4 Qd7 29. Nf6 {My engine wants to repeat
moves here so it looks like Black is at least equal in this line}) 23... Kh8
24. Rf2 Qg7 25. Raf1 Nd4 26. Kg2 Re7 27. Rf6 Qg8 28. b3 Qg7 (28... Ne2 29. Qb2
Nd4 30. b4 Qg7 31. a4 h6 32. Qa2 Red7 33. Qc4 {and Black is falling apart} Re7
(33... c6 34. b5 cxb5 (34... c5 $4 35. Rxb6) 35. axb5) 34. h3 c6) 29. Nd6 $1 {
an amusing move} Rxd6 30. Rf8+ Qxf8 31. Rxf8+ Kg7 32. Re8 $1 {
another amusing move} Rf7 {Black looks like he's in trouble here because his king is more exposed.}
33. b4 Kh6 {And what about this idea of hiding the king on h6?} 34. h4 {
it's met with h4} *

What could Black do to meet this idea?
  
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