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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas? (Read 22397 times)
GabrielGale
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #45 - 09/17/16 at 23:15:40
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@Paddy, it is GM-elect Moulton Ly  Wink  Grin He has everything he needs for the title and now in the 3-months notification period (part of the rules). He is Australia's 6th GM (not going into old old Aussie chestnut whether a certain US GM is Australian).
In contrast to England, Australia is slowly producing GMs, albeit in a trickle, not a flood like the USA.
Now back to the Voronezh 9...Bf5.
« Last Edit: 09/18/16 at 08:56:03 by GabrielGale »  

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Paddy
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #44 - 09/17/16 at 15:28:09
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In the latest update at Chess Publishing IM Moulthun Ly annotates two games featuring 9...Bf5, including one of his own games (a win with Black vs. R.Sardana 2403).

I think it's good to see this line being taken seriously. I was about to write "at last", but that would not be quite fair. Nevertheless, despite all the attention it has received here on the Forum, I think only two games with 9...Bf5 have been previously annotated at Chess Publishing.
  
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lg
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #43 - 04/20/16 at 11:51:32
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I liked it too, a lot !!!

Good explanations, good survey of alternative lines.

In fact, it is nice to see these comments by someone that is, "acquainted" with the Alekhine.

I have seen some comments on Alekhine games which, in my opinion, are a bit offside, simple because the commentators have no good knowledge of the defence,
e.g., the comment by Seirawan on Kamsky-s game.

This applies to some commentators on the site, although I would guess that Neil McDonald in not an Alekhine player
but his comments on the games he posted were very nice.

  
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TonyRo
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #42 - 04/19/16 at 20:52:04
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Glad you liked it!  Grin
  
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Keano
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #41 - 04/19/16 at 20:23:46
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TonyRo wrote on 04/19/16 at 16:26:47:
Indeed - 15...Qh4! was probably objectively winning. I have been dabbling around with a YouTube channel as a way to improve my chess, and analyzed the game relatively briefly here, just as an excuse to study it myself. Watch TonyRo on YT at your own peril!  Grin


excellent stuff, just finished watching it. Very good overview of the whole game and lots of lines behind the scenes I hadnt noticed.

Much better than Maurice Ashley!

What was funny during the live show was Seirawan evidently not aware of the massive reputation of the Voronezh - after Rc1 followed by b3 it was something like "not too impressed with White's opening play here, he seems a bit confused..."  Smiley
  
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #40 - 04/19/16 at 16:26:47
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Indeed - 15...Qh4! was probably objectively winning. I have been dabbling around with a YouTube channel as a way to improve my chess, and analyzed the game relatively briefly here, just as an excuse to study it myself. Watch TonyRo on YT at your own peril!  Grin
  
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Keano
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #39 - 04/19/16 at 12:35:37
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A tragedy for Kamsky in the end, almost played a brilliancy only to blunder it away. He looked devastated.

Nevertheless this game was very promising news for 9...Bf5 fans. Black came out of the opening with a clear advantage - after ...Bxd4 the more straightforward ...Qh4 looks strongest
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #38 - 04/18/16 at 21:39:42
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Yeah, can't wait to see it finish! In my notes I have 10...e6! as better, but of course given the game that's not a relevant criticism! Wonderful game so far - it doesn't look like Kamsky has played it perfectly, but even so it's been quite a display so far.  Shocked Cheesy Grin
  
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Keano
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #37 - 04/18/16 at 20:11:21
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Here we have the very latest up to date - following the US ch live it looks like Kamsky agrees with myself and TonyRo, or maybe he has been secretly watching this thread  Wink.

Xiong-Kamsky in progress:

1 e4 Nf6
2 e5 Nd5
3 d4 d6
4 c4 Nb6
5 exd6 cxd6
6 Nc3 g6
7 Be3 Bg7
8 Rc1 O-O
9 b3 Bf5
10 d5 e5
11 dxe6 Bxe6
12 Nge2 d5

Black has at least equalized already I'd say, in fact I'd take Black. Good opening play from Kamsky!
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #36 - 04/08/16 at 21:24:00
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9...Bf5 also generally leads to positions that look similar to the non-Voronezh variations in the 5...cxd6 Exchange, which is nice.
  
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Keano
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #35 - 04/08/16 at 19:59:41
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I think the problem with 9...e5 is that it is just too easy for White to handle OTB. Swap Queens and play all the natural moves, meanwhile Black must be accurate simply to stay alive and not get squashed.
  
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #34 - 04/08/16 at 14:22:15
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I understand the effort to maintain 9...Bf5 as a feasible alternative

However, i wonder what happened to the analysis of 9...e5.
I still remember a thread initiated by the late Markovich titled "defanging the Voronezh" and as far as i recall, the conclusion was that there was no refutation of the line.

I agree that it may be not easy to play in a normal game, but is it real bad?! or not atractive to play?ido not know any refutation of this line;
also many Alekhine writers support the line, e.g.
John Cox, john Watson, etc.
  
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Keano
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #33 - 04/06/16 at 23:00:15
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yep - looks decent enough resources for eventual equality there. Not much winning chances for Black but plenty of resources to level out the game.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #32 - 04/03/16 at 05:09:33
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Ludde wrote on 03/13/14 at 23:10:52:
I have played 9..Bf5 in a couple of correspondence games and thought I had found the "solution" to the Voronezh until I recently ran into 10.Nf3 d5 11.c5 Nc8 12.h3 Nc6 13.Be2 e6 14.O-O N8e7 15.g4 Be4 16.Ng5 Rb8 17.Qd2 h6 18.Ngxe4 dxe4 19.Rcd1. I will finally hold this game (actually we have reached a rook ending covered by tablebases, so I have no concerns any more - not about discussing the game either) but only after severe agony. The position here is not nice to play at all for black, and requires several "only moves". I seriously doubt it could be held between equals in an OTB game. So at the moment I think it is back to the old 9..e5 which is the only way to go. It is a shame really - in the other games I got nice play with this line, but the continuation above has closed the chapter on 9..Bf5 for me.


This ^^^ is the line in question. In my notes I have 13...Be4 instead (getting the bishop to e4 before Ng5 is possible), intending 14.O-O Bxf3 15.Bxf3 e6, transposing to lines you'd more typically reach via 12.Be2 Bg4 13.O-O Nc6 14.h3, and so on. This line tends to score very badly for White, but it seems to be objectively around equal or so. More critical seems to be 14.Nxe4 dxe4 15.Ng5 Nxd4, when White has a few choices:

a) 16.Bxd4 Bxd4 17.Nxe4 a5!? 18.O-O Na7! Bc4 was T.Ton That Nhu-D.Nguyen, Vung Tau 2002, and now 19...Nc6N seems equal to me.

b) 16.Nxe4N Qa5+ 17.Qd2 Qxd2 18.Nxd2 Nxe2 19.Kxe2 e6 seems very solid to me, but it's also possible that, similar to the idea above, that 16...a5!? or 16...a6!?, intending ...Na7-c6, is good too.

c) 16.O-ON a6! 17.Nxe4 Na7!= and so on.

I'd be interested to hear what people think about this, specifically Ludde, since he probably rejected this idea for some reason.

If a moderator wants to split this off, I'm fine with it - keeping the ...e5 tries consistent and not hijacking Kam's thread seems logical. If not, that's okay too! Grin
« Last Edit: 04/03/16 at 21:08:24 by TonyRo »  
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Re: Alekine's Defence, Voronezh 9...Bf5 New Ideas?
Reply #31 - 04/03/16 at 04:12:57
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There was a brief discussion of 10.Nf3 d5 and 10.Nf3 Bg4 two years ago with a nice contribution from Ludde in this thread (see posts 41–44):
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1382118239/all

Back then we concluded that this looked good for White, but there may be improvements of course.
  

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