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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle (Read 11112 times)
gewgaw
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #33 - 11/10/10 at 20:22:05
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http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6799

Grischuk to replace Carlsen in the Candidates
10.11.2010 – Reacting to the withdrawal of Magnus Carlsen from the FIDE Candidate Tournament to decide the next challenger for World Champion Viswanathan Anand, FIDE has expressed understanding for the reasons he gave – and in fact agrees with some of them. But it says it cannot change its regulations at such a late date and at the request of one player. Press release.
  

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Dink Heckler
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #32 - 11/09/10 at 14:09:12
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Yep...I'm wondering if we'll see a Western backlash against FIDE at some point...esp if we have more bankable stars in the West: Carlsen, Nakamura, Giri et al...prolly remain just a pipe dream but we can still dream...but the tinder must be there; there can hardly be any Western federations that aren't implacably opposed to Kirsan, can there?!

(vaguely apropos: gave my two-year old the new New in Chess yesterday to see what she'd make of it; she opened it to a picture of Kirsan, and told me: 'I don't like the funny man'...out of the mouths of babes....)
  

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Keano
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #31 - 11/08/10 at 09:07:09
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I can't see that Carlsen has a very good case arguing about the format, but he's entitled to withdraw. A far stronger case would've been that FIDE is run by an ex-dictator gangster, and that people still have not forgotten about the murder of Larissa Yudina. These days though it seems like its far more important to worry about the details of World Championship cycles than about any silly business of people being killed by dictatorships.
  
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #30 - 11/08/10 at 02:56:54
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I am sorry. But I honestly do not understand what point you are trying to make with respect to the Carlsen controversy.


A controversy? He declined an invitation in due time. No withdrawal, protest or anything controversial as far as I know.
  

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Antillian
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #29 - 11/07/10 at 12:42:31
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tafl wrote on 11/07/10 at 12:29:26:
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Match play is simply not the same as tournament play. The psychology, the preparation, the mindset...there are many differences.


The best chess players play the best moves. This can be seen even clearer in matches, where you don't have to take risks in order to win with Black.


I am sorry. But I honestly do not understand what point you are trying to make with respect to the Carlsen controversy.
  

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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #28 - 11/07/10 at 12:29:26
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Match play is simply not the same as tournament play. The psychology, the preparation, the mindset...there are many differences.


The best chess players play the best moves. This can be seen even clearer in matches, where you don't have to take risks in order to win with Black.
  

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Antillian
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #27 - 11/07/10 at 11:00:10
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tafl wrote on 11/07/10 at 10:41:56:
Good moves bring you a long way in matches as well as in tournaments.


Of course they do. But that is over simplistic. Match play is simply not the same as tournament play. The psychology, the preparation, the mindset...there are many differences.
  

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tafl
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #26 - 11/07/10 at 10:41:56
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Good moves bring you a long way in matches as well as in tournaments.
  

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Antillian
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #25 - 11/07/10 at 09:53:44
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TalJechin wrote on 11/06/10 at 16:56:42:
How does he benefit personally from his proposed changes?


He has a proven track record of success with respect to tournaments. He has no such track record with match play, and has very little experience in this regard.
  

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Jupp53
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #24 - 11/07/10 at 09:27:22
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ReneDescartes wrote on 11/06/10 at 18:41:12:
One aspect of this affair that I have not seen remarked on: I am a great believer in the unconscious, and if I am not mistaken I detect a whiff of the unconscious imitation of Fischer.  Looking spoiled; asking for changes and withdrawing when the requests are not met; pulling out when the world is most closely watching, presumably only to come back triumphantly later:  all reminiscent of  Fischer.

Humm, well, ähem..... There's at least one problem with this way of looking at the unconscious: Is it the one of the object or the one of the observer?  Cheesy  Grin
  

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ReneDescartes
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #23 - 11/06/10 at 18:41:12
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TalJechin wrote on 11/06/10 at 17:04:29:
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In the normal course of events, five years from now Kramnik and Anand will be weaker and Carlsen should be much stronger--the physiological course of the human organism virtually guarantees that. In several years, if he works hard, Carlsen may not be primus inter pares at all, but rather the clearly dominant player in the world, and thus may be able to arrange a match with the sitting champion on his own terms, whether FIDE likes it or not.


But on the other hand there are a lot of promising young players moving up already. In five years time Carlsen may just be one of several young top players over 2800.

That is certainly one possibility. If Carlsen believes that in the end that will not happen, that adds another dimension to his arrogance, though perhaps not an unjustified one.

One aspect of this affair that I have not seen remarked on: I am a great believer in the unconscious, and if I am not mistaken I detect a whiff of the unconscious imitation of Fischer.  Looking spoiled; asking for changes and withdrawing when the requests are not met; pulling out when the world is most closely watching, presumably only to come back triumphantly later:  all reminiscent of  Fischer.
« Last Edit: 11/06/10 at 20:56:13 by ReneDescartes »  
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TalJechin
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #22 - 11/06/10 at 17:04:29
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In the normal course of events, five years from now Kramnik and Anand will be weaker and Carlsen should be much stronger--the physiological course of the human organism virtually guarantees that. In several years, if he works hard, Carlsen may not be primus inter pares at all, but rather the clearly dominant player in the world, and thus may be able to arrange a match with the sitting champion on his own terms, whether FIDE likes it or not.


But on the other hand there are a lot of promising young players moving up already. In five years time Carlsen may just be one of several young top players over 2800.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #21 - 11/06/10 at 16:56:42
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Antillian wrote on 11/06/10 at 14:31:38:
TalJechin wrote on 11/06/10 at 13:55:48:
In a way it's an admirably decision, since he's abstaining from a considerable income potentially. About 10 million Nkr if he should win, plus that he seems better at getting sponsorship than most top players. And all over a matter of principle?


Exactly what would that principle be? That I want it my way and my way alone will do?

There is come merit that FIDE has been changing the rules too often. However, he is demanding that FIDE use a tournament system, when tournament systems for the world championship title have been the exception, not the tradition. He is on shaky ground and comes across like a spoilled brad just trying to exploit his newly gained privileged position to game the system in a manner that will benefit him personally. Carlsen has lost all my respect. He is acting like a prima donna.


How does he benefit personally from his proposed changes?

And if he doesn't gain anything from his boycott, I wouldn't call him a "spoiled brat".

Actually, it's not often that anyone displays any moral backbone in the chess world. The chess Olympiad in Dubai comes to mind - where only a few countries boycotted the tm to protest against the decision of not allowing Israel to participate.

Besides, even selfish acts can benefit the majority - e.g. Fischer's "I want more money and better lighting of the board etc etc" - a decade later he was no longer a spoiled brat, but a hero who brought better conditions and attention to the game...

So, it remains to be seen what the consequences of Carlsen's letter will be. But short term, he only loses as far I understand, giving up a possible spot in the history books as youngest champion (though that's record that will probably be broken more and more often) and quite a lot money. So, I'm actually very curious as to what you think his personal gain in this is?
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #20 - 11/06/10 at 16:46:13
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gewgaw wrote on 11/06/10 at 13:00:02:
If I were his father, I´d press him to play for the championship. In a couple of years, maybe another prodigy appears and dominates the scene and magnus  spoilt his chance. Sometimes a teenager needs some guidance. ^^


Very droll.  If I were his father, really, I'd be thinking the effect on a 19-year old of the almost unimaginable sustained pressure of a world championship match cycle, far greater than that of a major tournament, or even of, say, an Olympic gymnastics championship. Read From London to Elista for a harrowing account of this phenomenon, which often brings contestants to the verge of mental and physical collapse.  In his first match against Korchnoi Karpov lost 22 pounds.  As a chess fan I would love to see Carlsn play, but as a father I would certainly support this decision. 

In the normal course of events, five years from now Kramnik and Anand will be weaker and Carlsen should be much stronger--the physiological course of the human organism virtually guarantees that. In several years, if he works hard, Carlsen may not be primus inter pares at all, but rather the clearly dominant player in the world, and thus may be able to arrange a match with the sitting champion on his own terms, whether FIDE likes it or not.

On the other hand, the rationalization given by Carlsen--and it is clearly that, whatever his true motives might be--is indeed arrogant, and taken at face value would seem to challenge the legitimacy of the mode of determining the world champion that prevailed from Steinitz until Kasparov.
  
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Re: Carlsen drops out of World Championship cycle
Reply #19 - 11/06/10 at 16:05:20
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In my opinion privileges should in general be abolished and a future World Championship model should be based on a fair fight between the best players in the World, on equal terms. This should apply also to the winner of the previous World Championship, and especially so when there are several players at approximately the same level in the world elite. (Why should one player have one out of two tickets to the final to the detriment of all remaining players in the world? Imagine that the winner of the 2010 Football World Cup would be directly qualified to the 2014 World Cup final while all the rest of the teams would have to fight for the other spot.)


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I agree with him concerning this matter, the world champion should not be seeded directly to the final, that is really too much of a privilege, make qualification groups just like in football and the last 2 remaining players will fight it out for real ...
but please no fide knockout ... not as many teams as in football, maybe only 8-16 players ...

I have always like the system used in draughts/checker (100 squares). Once in four years a nice long match, in between a superstrong tournament a la San Luis a few years ago. If the current WCh wins the tournament (sharing first place suffices) the next challenger for the match will be the number 2 of that tournament. If somebody else wins the tournament the last WCh will be the challenger.
  

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