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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The Verbeterde List (Read 3316 times)
Uhohspaghettio
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Re: The Verbeterde List
Reply #10 - 05/13/11 at 23:14:52
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Twaburov wrote on 05/09/11 at 21:24:53:
The Verbeterde List is the correct name, because 6..Nbd7 has been played before, but nobody really understood the idea of the move. Lody kuling was the first to understand that the right way to follow up after 7.f4 is 7...Qc7 8.Qf3 h6 9.Bh4 e5! (The idea of Nbd7 is to postpone a move with the e-pawn).
Later it turned out that 9...g5 also gives black good play.


Just a few observations...: 

1) There is no such thing as "the correct name", it's subjective.
2) An idea is something a human comes up with. If you find out some new move or strategy in an opening, that's not understanding the original idea better... that's coming up with a new/different idea yourself. 
3) Super GMs have played it before. I think it's safe to say they had some ideas of their own about the opening. Modern refinements are made all the time.   
4) It could be named after him if he made it really popular and showed why it worked. But it has only become a little more popular recently.   
    
  

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Uruk
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Re: The Verbeterde List
Reply #9 - 05/12/11 at 20:54:52
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I'd think a difference is the latter already having an established name.
  
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MNb
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Re: The Verbeterde List
Reply #8 - 05/09/11 at 22:41:43
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That's not a very good argument. We are not going to name 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 the Kasparov Attack, only because he was the first to show its potential, are we?
  

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Twaburov
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Re: The Verbeterde List
Reply #7 - 05/09/11 at 21:24:53
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The Verbeterde List is the correct name, because 6..Nbd7 has been played before, but nobody really understood the idea of the move. Lody kuling was the first to understand that the right way to follow up after 7.f4 is 7...Qc7 8.Qf3 h6 9.Bh4 e5! (The idea of Nbd7 is to postpone a move with the e-pawn).
Later it turned out that 9...g5 also gives black good play.
  
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MNb
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Re: The Verbeterde List
Reply #6 - 03/27/11 at 21:49:50
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Twaburov wrote on 03/27/11 at 17:31:35:
Lody Kuling, and the name Verbeterde List which was given to this opening, are very well-known in the Netherlands.

Well, I am Dutch and I have never heard of both names. That's probably because Lody Kuling is born in 1990 and I emigrated in 2000. That's obviously several years before Lody Kuling began to play a move that has been played hundreds of times before his birth. Credit should go to whom it has to go; 6.Bg5 Nbd7 7.f4 Qc7 8.Qf3 e5 has been played in 2005 for the first time. So 8...h6 9.Bh4 e5 is the big improvement. Giving this line a separate name looks to me about as meaningful as say the Zilbermintz-Gambit in the Euwe Defence of the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit.
There is 7.Bc4 for instance.
I know the name Twan Burg though.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Twaburov
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Re: The Verbeterde List
Reply #5 - 03/27/11 at 17:31:35
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A couple of years ago Lody Kuling showed that by postponing ..e6, the usual setup with f4 Qf3 is not good for white, due to e7-e5, (later g7-g5! even brought black advantage). For this reason, the line gained a lot of popularity again. Lody Kuling, and the name Verbeterde List which was given to this opening, are very well-known in the Netherlands. Later Dominguez showed that against 7.Bc4 Qb6 might solve some problems. At the moment it is not really clear for white where to get an advantage.
  
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MNb
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Re: The Verbeterde List
Reply #4 - 03/15/11 at 20:35:49
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Chances it will stick are not very high. I doubt if many Dutch chess players know who Lody Kuling is.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: The Verbeterde List
Reply #3 - 03/15/11 at 14:14:54
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Wikipedia is responsible for a bunch of opening names that don't make much sense.

I hope this one doesn't stick. It wouldn't be fair to the GMs who played it before him or who have made it (slightly) more popular in the last few years.

  
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Re: The Verbeterde List
Reply #2 - 03/15/11 at 06:42:29
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Kopperhed wrote on 03/14/11 at 22:31:37:
In the Wikipedia article for the Sicilian Najdorf under The Classic Main Line (6. Bg5) it mentions "The Verbeterde List" (6. Bg5 Nbd7) and mentions a Lody Kuling who played it.  Do any of you know any more about this line?

At first I was suspicious, after all that's an angram of "Dull Yoking", but the guy exists (Dutch player rated 2212, born 1990 according to the FIDE rating list) and has indeed played this line.

However, why you would mention him specifically when many, many others have played many, many games (Danner, Korobov, Barry, Mathes, Zagrebelny, Bogdanovic...) in this line is a bit strange...
  
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Re: The Verbeterde List
Reply #1 - 03/14/11 at 22:50:44
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Uh, I believe 6...Nbd7 was popular in the 1960s (most specifically I recall Petrosian playing it against Spassky), and it has recently become topical again.
  
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Kopperhed
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The Verbeterde List
03/14/11 at 22:31:37
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In the Wikipedia article for the Sicilian Najdorf under The Classic Main Line (6. Bg5) it mentions "The Verbeterde List" (6. Bg5 Nbd7) and mentions a Lody Kuling who played it.  Do any of you know any more about this line?

Thanks in advance,

Kopperhed
  
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