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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Barsky on Ragozin (Read 24755 times)
Arnaudov
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #40 - 11/22/16 at 03:46:18
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Justinhorton wrote on 07/11/15 at 11:54:03:
I bought this book the other day. I've been looking for a variation I can't seem to find - is it covered?

The line is 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. cxd5 exd5 6. Bg5 Nbd7 (or some other move order). Now what happens if White plays 7. Qc2? I ask because this is Khalifman's recommendation in Opening Repertoire According To Kramnik, which of course is quite old now. Is 7.Qc2 not considered important any more, or is the line there and I just can't see it? It's not the best-indexed book in the world as far as the variations are concerned.


Just saw this. It's 7...c5 in Kramnik v Grischuk, page 321.
  
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #39 - 07/11/15 at 11:54:03
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I bought this book the other day. I've been looking for a variation I can't seem to find - is it covered?

The line is 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. cxd5 exd5 6. Bg5 Nbd7 (or some other move order). Now what happens if White plays 7. Qc2? I ask because this is Khalifman's recommendation in Opening Repertoire According To Kramnik, which of course is quite old now. Is 7.Qc2 not considered important any more, or is the line there and I just can't see it? It's not the best-indexed book in the world as far as the variations are concerned.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #38 - 01/15/12 at 20:53:55
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Just a word about one possible move order issue:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 c5 5.cd5 ed5 is best met by 6.Bg5, which supposedly gives White an edge in every variation. So by inference, the position after 6...cd4 7.ed4 Bb4 should definitely favor white.

This is actually D32, a Tarrasch, but it's possible to arrive at this position through the Ragozin, D38


  
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MartinC
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #37 - 01/12/12 at 12:04:35
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Maybe yes. There are some extra Qa4+ x c4 ideas and stuff that you've missed after 4 .. dc but they're not anything terribly serious.

Oh 5 e3 a6 6 Bxc4 b5 is actually quite pleasant for black so you really don't want to play 6 .. c5 there if given the choice. Its like a more comfortable Meran. There's a little bit to check cf the most accurate move orders and stuff but white really should be going 6 a4 instead.
(Not sure how well known this is at club level though - I actually did play 4.. dc for a bit at club level and kept getting that position!).

The Vienna isn't really a subvariation of the Ragozin though. Its a full opening complex in its own right and one which Barsky quite reasonably doesn't cover.
  
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #36 - 01/12/12 at 11:37:51
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I wonder about the difference between 4....Bb4 and 4....dxc4.

Here is an overview:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 (or other move orders)

4...Bb4

     a) 5.Bg5

           5...h6
           5...Sbd7
           5...dxc4 6.e4 (6.e3 b5!) c5 This is the standard position of the vienna variation of the ragozin.

     b) 5.cxd5
     c) 5.e3 c5 or 5...0-0
     d) 5.Qa4+

4...dxc4

     a) 5.e4 Bb4 6.Bg5 c5  This is the standard position of the vienna variation of the ragozin.

     b) 5.e3 a6 (5...c5 6.Bxc4 a6 see below)
           6.a4 c5 7.Bxc4
           6.Bxc4 c5 (6...b5 happens more often) 7.a4 (7.0-0) see 6.a4

My question is:
If black aims for the above mentioned standard position of the vienna variation is then 4...dxc4 even easier to learn?!  Huh

Kind regards,
Robert
  
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #35 - 01/01/12 at 11:14:48
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Interesting Smiley Not atypical of the book I guess - seemingly a good resource but it does certainly need some work untangling everything. Drawback of annotated games I guess, although in some ways making us work a bit of course a good thing!

Actually the large section on 5 Qc2 Nc6 very indicative of this - if you were being utilitarian you could easily do a Ragozin book without even mentioning it, let alone half a dozen full annotated games. 5 Qc2 rare now and  dc/c5/o-o all much more popular responses. (c5 maybe more practical than dc, what with the mainline Noteboom transposition in there?!)

Doesn't stop it being instructive/historically useful though. And of course maybe relevant for Nimzo/Ragozin combinations, especially with it being rare enough there to have fallen out of Vigorito.
  
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #34 - 12/30/11 at 23:55:08
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Getting back on topic...Smiley

A question!


Topalov-Carlsen Corus 2007

#1
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*
(Position after 15.b5)

Aronian-Kramnik Tal Memorial 2010

#2
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*
(Position after 16.b5)

One gets the impression from reading Barsky that position #1 is better for White, while position #2 is much better version for Black. Why? Basically, in position #2 after 16...Nxc5! 17.Qxc5 Bf5! 18.Qc3 Rfc8 19.Qa1 Black has 19...Bg4! which threatens 20...Bxf3 winning the bishop on h4. That bishop is not vulnerable on h4 in position #1.

So my question is if Black can be tricky and reach position #2 from the position #1 move order. See below:


  
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #33 - 12/25/11 at 14:58:17
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According to https://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4318 her given name is Humpy and family name is Koneru. But the family name is written first apparently:
Koneru Humpy.
  
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fling
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #32 - 12/25/11 at 07:59:25
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saubhikr wrote on 12/25/11 at 02:48:27:
Markovich wrote on 11/25/11 at 16:32:29:
That's Humpy Koneru.


Surprised to see the comment. Isn't she the second highest rated female player for a long time? She lost to Yifan Hou because Hou played better than her overall and she couldn't exploit the advantageous positions she got a few cases.


Well, I think the comment is right. Her first name is Humpy if I understand it correctly.
  
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #31 - 12/25/11 at 02:48:27
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Markovich wrote on 11/25/11 at 16:32:29:
That's Humpy Koneru.


Surprised to see the comment. Isn't she the second highest rated female player for a long time? She lost to Yifan Hou because Hou played better than her overall and she couldn't exploit the advantageous positions she got a few cases.
  
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #30 - 11/25/11 at 17:01:24
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Markovich wrote on 11/25/11 at 16:32:29:
That's Humpy Koneru.

Are you sure? We already got it wrong once with another strong chessplayer from India: Anand Viswanathan.
  

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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #29 - 11/25/11 at 16:32:29
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That's Humpy Koneru.
  

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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #28 - 11/25/11 at 11:29:27
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But I wouldn't claim Hou Yifan was better or even equalising in all these games, or what is the opinion? I haven't studied the lines, just seen the games briefly with comments at Chessbase, where it was commented that Koneru Humpy probably was better from the opening but later on lost the advantage.
  
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #27 - 11/25/11 at 06:37:01
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Btw, Hou Yifan used Bb4 against Koneru Humpy several times in her successful defense of her Women's World Championship title. Humpy played three different systems but only managed one draw out of three games, and that was the final when Hou Yifan only needed a draw to retain the title.

Barsky's timing couldn't have been better: He's written a book that covers a fresh opening that has the endorsement of a 17 year old World Champion. And, it's available in time for Christmas!
  
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Re: Barsky on Ragozin
Reply #26 - 11/25/11 at 01:48:30
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Here is my brief review for the 3Cs website:

The Ragozin Complex – A Guide for White and Black, by Vladimir Barsky (translated by Steve Giddins)
New in Chess 350 pages, softback

One of the most prized items in my chess library is a somewhat battered blue hard-back book that was published in Kiev in 1956. It’s in Russian. The title means Questions of Modern Chess Theory. The author is Isaac Lipnitsky (1923-59). Lipnitsky was a very strong player; he never competed internationally, but played three times in the immensely strong championship of the USSR, his best achievement being a share of second place in 1950, behind Keres. The first 200 pages of the book deliver what the title of the book promises: a discussion of the theory of the openings and the links between the opening and the middlegame. The approach is startlingly modern and “concrete”, anti-dogmatic.

The final 220 or so pages of the book apply the ideas developed in the first half to the study of one particular opening complex: the Ragozin system, which can arise from various move orders but is essentially a hybrid of the Nimzo-Indian and the Queen’s Gambit, often arising, for instance, after 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 d5 4 Nc3 Bb4. Black is prepared to accept the blocking of his c-pawn (5 Qa4+ forces 5…Nc6) and usually intends to free his position with …e5 instead of …c5.

Lipnitsky’s book was remarkably influential; references to it can be found, for instance, in the writings of Fischer, Botvinnik, Shereshevsky and Dvoretsky. Fischer is said to have studied Russian just so that he could read it, and early in his career he played several games with the Ragozin, although it has to be admitted that it was not his most successful black opening.

My own knowledge of Russian is limited to what one might call “chess-Russian”, developed by trying, with the aid of a dictionary, to understand the pages of Russian chess magazines in the late 1960s. Therefore I was delighted when in 2008 the publishers “Quality Chess” issued an English translation of Lipnitsky’s legendary book. This was great – as far as it went… The publishers decided to issue only the first part of it, omitting the second section on the Ragozin and replacing it with some of Lipnitsky’s annotated games. Still, this is a good book and I am pleased to be able to appreciate Lipnitsky’s ideas more deeply through the fluent translation by John Sugden.

Now, in 2011, my happiness is (almost) complete: the publishers New in Chess have issued a 350 page book by Lipnitsky-fan International Master Vladimir Barsky, offering an extensive study of the Ragozin and presenting the state of its theory in 2011, but based on Lipnitsky’s approach and division of the material. The author also makes extensive use of relevant quotations from Lipnitsky’s book, including a translation of his important section on “How to study a concrete opening”. 

Viacheslav Ragozin himself (1908-1962) appears in the book far less than Lipnitsky, although six of his seminal games receive extensive annotation.

Some readers might be disappointed by the fact that this is not really a repertoire book; instead it is based on the “complete annotated games” approach. It contains 65 annotated games, grouped into seven chapters. There is an index of players, a list of games, an index of variations and a bibliography.

Two slightly sad notes: the only photograph presented of Lipnitsky is a blurred one from 1939. And the photo purporting to be of Ragozin (page 9) is in fact one of Boleslavsky. I hope this can be corrected in any subsequent edition of this interesting book.

Verdict:  One can learn a great deal from this book, both from Lipnitsky’s insights and the more up-to-date theory provided by its 21st century author, IM Barsky, for whom this book was clearly a labour of love. Highly recommended to players wishing to develop a feel for the Ragozin complex. For many players this will provide a good answer to the question of what to aim for when White avoids the Nimzo-Indian by playing 3.Nf3.                                     ****(*)

A contents list and sample can be downloaded in pdf from
http://www.newinchess.com/The_Ragozin_Complex-p-954.html
  
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