Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C01: French Exchange from the Black side (Read 14877 times)
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4245
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: C01: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #29 - 07/26/11 at 21:49:31
Post Tools
Another bit:  9...f6 was played by Uhlmann in one of the games in his "Ein Leben lang Französisch."
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: C01: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #28 - 07/26/11 at 21:17:07
Post Tools
I have the same advice but from McDonald & Harley's book (comment roughly like "9...ooo is more from a desire for Black to equalize") ...and in fact the reference game for me is Grau-Nimzowich,San Remo 1930  where Black implements the idea of delaying choice between kingside and queenside castling.

For White I will not advice 10.b4 (true,White has no good reason to give up one tempo and weaknesses..if Black chooses for short castle)
but 10.a4 or 10.Qc2 (forbiding oo...and now it's Black turn to prove that f6 is more useful than a quick Bf5 as in 9...ooo 10.Qc2 Bf5 11.b4 Bxd3 12.Qxd3 Qf5!? (Moskalenko))

The immediate 9...f6 10.Nf1 is in game Blackburne-Rubinstein, St Petersburg 1914 (Psakhis and MCO)
  

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4245
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: C01: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #27 - 07/26/11 at 20:29:06
Post Tools
Psakhis mentioned 9...f6 (citing a Rubinstein game) approvingly in "The Complete French" from 1992.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6901
Joined: 06/16/05
Re: C01: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #26 - 07/26/11 at 20:17:00
Post Tools
Amet, I like two things in particular about Black's plan with 9...f6:

  • Rubinstein played it!
  • The stronger player tends to win!


I too prefer not to block the c7 pawn in the Exchange French. I do like the slightly different flavor of the lines I've seen, but I think I'll stick to c6/c5 ideas for the most part.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1422
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: C01: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #25 - 07/26/11 at 19:37:43
Post Tools
It seems that i am the only one in this world that i believe that the opposite castling positions are in White's favour? At least the positions that everybody discusses and were analysed by Watson, because i think that with a slight modification Black is OK. In fact i am referring to the following idea by Rubinstein:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Bd3
(5.h3 is another potential problem)
5...Bd6 6.O-O Nge7 7.c3 Bg4 8.Nbd2 Qd7 9.Re1 and now 9...f6!! a very deep move!

If Black plays 9...O-O-O White will start an attack with b4-Nb3 and so on BUT...

White has to play something. If 9...f6 10.Nf1 then 10...O-O-O! now that the Nf1 cannot easily go to Black's King while the ...f6 move is always usefull in these positions. If White tries to be flexible and play 10.b4 hoping for 10...O-O-O then after 10...O-O! with the idea ...Bf5 he finds himself in a difficult position because in the ...O-O variation the move b4 is out of place and creates weeknesses. See a Moskalenko's game in Flexible French for this theme.

But my main recommendation is the simple 4...Nf6 waiting for c4 to play Bb4+ and Nc6 and if 5.Bd3 ( a bad place for a Bishop in these IQP positions) then 5...c5! The game is unbalanced and Black plays for the win.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6901
Joined: 06/16/05
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #24 - 07/07/11 at 19:03:24
Post Tools
I know this is a general comment, but I prefer to delay castling as long as possible in the French Exchange. I like when I can get f6 in with a gain of tempo and only really need to worry about my hole on e6. I do find myself castling Q-side quite often, but I like the flexibility. I've even found myself playing Kf7 on occasion!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #23 - 07/07/11 at 18:43:41
Post Tools
Fromper wrote on 07/07/11 at 17:55:03:
OrangeCounty wrote on 07/07/11 at 02:21:32:
If you're going to play ...Nc6 without ...c7-c5, consider castling Queenside!


That's my favorite plan in the French Exchange.


Me too (I have curious feeling of repeating again again the same advices  Lips Sealed ).

I will ponder that I prefer to play Nc6 when White has played Bd3 and c3, ..., position (specially pawns) is specific then to engineer some special plan with ooo.

I don't feel it suitable with a quick 4.c4 move (Morphy liked it because he enjoyed center-open lines)...I prefer a quick Bb4+ ; Nf6 ; oo as an answer.

  

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 371
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #22 - 07/07/11 at 17:55:03
Post Tools
OrangeCounty wrote on 07/07/11 at 02:21:32:
If you're going to play ...Nc6 without ...c7-c5, consider castling Queenside!


That's my favorite plan in the French Exchange. It's not boring and symmetric if you're castled on opposite sides. For that matter, that's also why I play the Nc3 line as white against the Petroff.

I'll second the recommendation for McDonald's "How to Play Against 1. e4". Maybe not the most detailed for you high level opening theory buffs, but for us intermediate level patzers, it has good coverage of the Nc6 Exchange and MacCutcheon, which I like, even though I don't follow his recommendations against the Advance and Tarrasch. And McDonald just has a good writing style that's easy to just sit and read, unlike some chess books that are a little too dry.

  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1642 from coming back rusty, so trying to get back to that level
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
OrangeCounty
Full Member
***
Offline


You played that like it
was a good move!

Posts: 171
Joined: 05/26/10
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #21 - 07/07/11 at 02:21:32
Post Tools
Everything works!

That's my advice on the French Exchange; there is almost nothing you can do that will get you in serious trouble as long as you look at things first (and, you know, get off the e file).  I like the idea of controlling the e4 square, although I would generally combine this with playing c7-c5, with reasonable IQP positions and/or pressure in the center.  The French Exchange is like a Petroff with a free tempo for Black (which Black must use to play Ne4-f6!).  White has fewer dynamic chances than in the Petroff, but also fewer ways to get in trouble.

If you're going to play ...Nc6 without ...c7-c5, consider castling Queenside!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BirdBrain
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 168
Joined: 05/29/09
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #20 - 06/20/11 at 13:21:41
Post Tools
TN, I will look into that book as my next chess investment.  I just invested in PGN Mentor, so I don't want to buy too many things at once  Cry Cheesy But that being said, I do have a book on complete 1. e4, but it doesn't have much in the French Exchange on ...Nc6.  It basically advocated the ...c5 lines, which aren't terrible obviously.  I just like the idea of ...Nc6, that's all!  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3393
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #19 - 06/20/11 at 07:19:58
Post Tools
BirdBrain, this line is covered in 'How to Play Against 1.e4' by Neil McDonald, and provides a good case for ...Nc6 against 4.Nf3 and 4.Bd3. In fact, I highly recommend this book, which will answer several of your questions and give you a reliable and reputable repertoire.

On another note, I think 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bd3 c5 6.0-0 c4 7.Re1 Be7 8.Bf1 0-0 is a good try for Black, which unbalances the position quite a bit while maintaining a very solid position. Even 4.Bd3 c5 is quite sensible, but to enjoy these lines you do have to be happy with IQP positions.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BirdBrain
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 168
Joined: 05/29/09
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #18 - 06/20/11 at 04:20:26
Post Tools
You got it, boss!   Wink

I began to look into this line and found that there are a HIGH number of draws in the line.  What looks the most natural is dxc4, and then of course, d5.  I am not sure if I like c4 a6.  Not that it is terrible, but it seems that White gets some piece play that I don't really like to allow so easily.  But the c4 dxc4 d5 a6 lines...

I did find the following gritty game between a 2300 and a 2400 in this variation with a win for Black...



The link for the game is http://www.chess.com/games/view.html?id=1360347#
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #17 - 06/19/11 at 20:20:52
Post Tools
Yeah, 6. c4 led to positions that weren't my type, so those are the ones you need to check most.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4245
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #16 - 06/19/11 at 16:11:26
Post Tools
5...Bd6 is standard, whereupon the interesting move is 6. c4.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BirdBrain
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 168
Joined: 05/29/09
Re: French Exchange from the Black side
Reply #15 - 06/19/11 at 16:03:03
Post Tools
BPaulsen, I do like the ...Nc6 - I think it is aggressive and provocative.  I will study on the Bb5 variations.  I just played a nice game that actually employs some of the ideas in the ...Nc6 Bb5 variation that SmyslovFan discussed.  Of course, this isn't a high-rated match (1415 v. 1644 chess.com), but the principles you guys are telling me are making sense, and are a big help!  (NOTE - I even ventured 2...d5 against 2. Nf3 this time!  Cheesy thanks to your recommendations BPaulsen - according to what you said, I definitely will be a ...c4 player against the Wing Gambit)



1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.d4 Nc6 5.Bb5 Bd6 6.O-O Nge7 7.Bg5 O-O 8.Re1 f6
9.Bh4 Ng6 10.Bxc6 bxc6 11.Nc3 Bg4 12.h3 Bxf3 13.Qxf3 Nxh4 14.Qg4 Ng6 15.h4 f5
16.Qh3 Qxh4 17.Qf3 Rae8 18.Red1 Qh2+  0-1

Also - I know I had previously discussed playing ...Bg4 against the Nf3 setup after Nc6, but here, since White already looked like he wanted to part with his light bishop, I decided to retain mine on principle (does this make sense - seems to make sense to me) and went with ...Bd6.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo