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Normal Topic Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3 (Read 6901 times)
Jorge Fernández Vázquez
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Re: Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3
Reply #9 - 05/26/12 at 09:07:16
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I also think that 15...Ng4 is safest and perfectly good. Black stops any attacking ideas based on g4 and comfortably equalizes.
  

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FirebrandX
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Re: Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3
Reply #8 - 03/04/12 at 01:09:39
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Not specifically, but Schandorff himself admits black is teetering on the edge of disaster. Just playing over the lines on the board, you can see the game becomes 'can black survive?', which is quite a bit different than 'can black win?'. If you're going to walk a tight-rope like that, you might as well play Nxf2.
  
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Re: Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3
Reply #7 - 03/03/12 at 08:16:55
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I am skimming that chapter and it looks to me as if White gets an initiative that ends up dissipating if Black plays precise moves with 17...f5. Did you find an improvement in this line for White?
  

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FirebrandX
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Re: Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3
Reply #6 - 03/03/12 at 05:39:02
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Schandorff only briefly mentions 15...Ng4 and claims he doesn't fully trust it, but I'm convinced it's the safest line black can play should the whole 17...f5 or 17...Nxf2 look a little too scary OTB.

I also don't agree with his view of 17...Nxf2 being too risky. I feel if you're going to play into the crazy line of 16. g4 Nxg4 17. Rhg1, you might as well play Nxf2 anyway. Playing f5 just gives all the chances to white, whereas Nxf2 gives zero chances to white if you've prepared it well.

All that aside, I love Schandorff's book. There are very few lines I feel are better than his choices.
  
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Re: Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3
Reply #5 - 11/22/11 at 15:33:03
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There's analysis on this line in the new Quality Chess newsletter (#6).  They think Black 'looks safe.'
  
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Kubi
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Re: Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3
Reply #4 - 10/26/11 at 16:24:37
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To be precise, I quote Lars Schandorff (The Caro-Kann p.48)
Not 17...Nxf2 ? as 18.Qe2 Nxd1 19.Bxh6! is too dangerous and probably just lost. No simple forced win is clear (there are too many possible defensive tries to be sure) but this is not a line Black can trust over-the-board. But for those who enjoy analysing at home, it could be fun.

If one can work it out to a forced draw or grasp the essence of wild variations, playing 17..Nxf2 might be huge advantage against stronger opposition over the board, aspecially while clock is ticking and opponent is obliged to prove compensation for material deficit.  Wink
  
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Re: Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3
Reply #3 - 09/08/11 at 17:50:00
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Hi,
  I think Schandorff does mention 17..., Nf2 giving 18.Qe2 Nd1 19.Bh6 ! and comments "too dangerous and probably just lost. No simple forced win...but this is not a line Black can trust over-the-board." I think I'll stick with f5.
  
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Re: Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3
Reply #2 - 07/26/11 at 10:02:52
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You are probably right about 17...Nf2, IMHO, there is little to debate with Houdini&Co in these sharp lines. So this looks like a shortcut to a draw. (Sharp attacks starting from even positions have a tendency to lead to a perpetual or so, the same happens in a couple of Sicilian Najdorf or Dragon lines.)

Schandorff may be forgiven for not recommending this move for Black. If I get him right he mostly tries to find lines that leave some chances for Black to play a full game and hope for more than the draw, say against a weaker or unprepared player.

BTW, the move 17...Nf2 was mentioned by Postny (as an untested possibility) in an annotated ChessBase game from 2009 or 2010. I'm not going to discuss his very few lines here (they finished with = or unclear). You won't miss much anyway, especially since one of his lines doesn't wheather closer computer analysis, me thinks.
  
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varggrav
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Re: Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3
Reply #1 - 07/25/11 at 13:46:00
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The pgn file wasn't uploading correctly, so here are the two main tries I've analyzed:

a) 18 Qe2 Nxd1 19 Bxh6 Bf6 20 Bxg7 Bxg7 21 h6 Qf6 22 Qh2 Qxf3 23 hxg7 Qe3+ 24 Kb1 Nc3+ 25 bxc3 Qxg1+ with equality

b) 18 Qe3 Nxd1 19 Qxh6 Bf6 20 Bf4 Bxd4 21 Be5 Be3+ 22 Qxe3 Nxe3 23 Rxg7+ with perpetual check
  
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varggrav
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Classical CK 11. Bd2 w/ 15. Qd3
07/25/11 at 10:44:01
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In the line 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 dxe4 4 Nxe4 Bf5 5 Ng3 Bg6 6 h4 h6 7 Nf3 Nd7 8 h5 Bh7 9 Bd3 Bxd3 10 Qxd3 e6 11. Bd2 Nf6 12. 0-0-0 Be7 13. Ne4 Nxe4 14. Qxe4 Nf6 15. Qd3 0-0 there was a game where Leko crushed Topalov in rapid after 16. g4 Nxg4 17. Rhg1 f5. Schandorff comes up with some interesting ideas in this line and believes Black should be able to hold. I'm not quite convinced as I feel this line looks promising for White.

The problem is 17...Nxf2!? which I haven't seen analyzed nor mentioned. Am I and my engines just missing something or does this at best led to a draw for White?
  
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