Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C11: Rubinstein Variation/s (Read 6797 times)
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6899
Joined: 06/16/05
Re: C11: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #13 - 07/28/11 at 14:33:44
Post Tools
Nice, dom!

I do like Vachier-Lagrave's style. He needs to work to become a bit more consistent, especially in winning positions, but he gets interesting play in almost every game.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: C11: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #12 - 07/28/11 at 11:58:11
Post Tools
Not so old  Smiley example of Rubinstein with g3, here:
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7410

I believe it's time for Black to review all systems vs different White sublines
  

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1104
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: C11: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #11 - 07/28/11 at 10:21:08
Post Tools
Well, I like the positional approach of Rubinstein's French way more than the wild Winaver setup. But all I wanted to say is that it is somehow passive (and part of this is because of the famous French bishop on c8). Supposing you're playing with a guy who's 100 ELO points behind you.. Why give him chances for a draw (for example) playing Rubinstein instead of a more active setup?  Huh
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OrangeCounty
Full Member
***
Offline


You played that like it
was a good move!

Posts: 171
Joined: 05/26/10
Re: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #10 - 07/27/11 at 18:32:48
Post Tools
Vass wrote on 07/27/11 at 08:42:37:
OrangeCounty wrote on 07/26/11 at 21:18:28:
One thing to keep in mind is that the Bc8 is still a problem piece; ...dxe4 doesn't solve this problem, although it probably makes it easier to solve.

I don't think it makes it easier because dxe4 opens the position and the white pieces become active while this B on c8 stands in the way of the R on a8 somehow.
I tried this setup with black some years ago and all I got was +=  Embarrassed


The Rubinstein can feel +/= until White actually tries to do something.  It has the virtue of solidity, even more than the "ordinary" French lines with e4-e5.  I wouldn't let some +/= evaluations scare you off, necessarily, even if they're strong player evaluations rather than computer evaluations (which should be considered but not followed).  You're playing Black, after all, and +/= isn't 1-0.

The reason I think the Bc8 is an easier problem in the Rubinstein is that after b7-b6 or a7-a6 and b7-b5, the bishop on b7 has an open diagonal, rather than still being very bad as it often is there in the "ordinary" French.  Purely to illustrate, think of this as a plan for Black:

1. I will castle, placing my knights on f6 and d7 and my f8 Bishop on e7.
2. I will play c7-c5 and exchange pawns.
3. I will play b6 and Bb7.
4a. If there is a pawn on d4, I will exchange pieces and control the d5 square.
4b. If there is no pawn on d4, I will advance my e and f pawns to restrict White's pieces.

That's how the Rubinstein can play if White is passive (or just goes wrong somewhere).  You can't do all of that in order if White is paying attention, and shouldn't get it all in at all.  But you shouldn't think of the Rubinstein as prospectless; you can instead think of it, as I do, as a Sicilian Defense where Black played d7-d5 first, then c7-c5, rather than the other way around (almost like the comparison between a Leningrad Dutch (f7-f5 first) to the King's Indian (e7-e5 first).

Below the GM level, this variation has perfectly decent winning chances, based on the same basic concept as the Sicilian: Arguing that after exchanging c and d pawns for e and d pawns, Black has a positional edge.

[End useless generalizations typed solely for the purpose of improving morale.]
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: C11: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #9 - 07/27/11 at 17:59:25
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/27/11 at 15:04:30:
dom, What is the name of Bareev's book on the French, and what language is it in?


@SF: I adviced only in my post "to search Bareev's games"...I don't know if there exists one book from Bareev (about French included) ..I just noticed Bareev's name as good Black player in old posts Neil  (2004,2005)..

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=16299&kpage=3#reply61

read comments and then the link
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chesscollection?cid=1000958
  

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Krames
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 7
Joined: 07/04/11
Re: C11: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #8 - 07/27/11 at 16:03:02
Post Tools
Thanks gentlemen.
I like the French because of a fair amount of structure and solidity. The Winawer simply doesn't appeal to me and the classical just seems sooooo theory heavy. I'd like to play the Rubinstein lines and see what I can do in a "slower", more positional position.

Thanks again!
-Ted
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6899
Joined: 06/16/05
Re: C11: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #7 - 07/27/11 at 15:04:30
Post Tools
dom, What is the name of Bareev's book on the French, and what language is it in?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6899
Joined: 06/16/05
Re: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #6 - 07/27/11 at 15:01:59
Post Tools
My main source for this is Lev Psakhis' French Defense: Steinitz, Classical and Other Systems (2004).

Psakhis is one of the most respected experts on the French and he does a really good job of explaining the various options. He devotes two chapters to the Rubinstein and three to the Burn (1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 de4), which has many points of transposition.

My main problem with Psakhis' The Complete French, which also deals with the Rubinstein,
was that the typeface was too dense to figure out what variations he was discussing. This book is similarly dense, but a bit easier to follow because he uses bold font more liberally.

My first source for these lines was Tim Harding's The Classical French. It's adequate for a general overview, but there have been quite a few developments since that was published (late 1980s or early 1990s. I don't feel like looking it up at the moment.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1104
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #5 - 07/27/11 at 08:42:37
Post Tools
OrangeCounty wrote on 07/26/11 at 21:18:28:
One thing to keep in mind is that the Bc8 is still a problem piece; ...dxe4 doesn't solve this problem, although it probably makes it easier to solve.

I don't think it makes it easier because dxe4 opens the position and the white pieces become active while this B on c8 stands in the way of the R on a8 somehow.
I tried this setup with black some years ago and all I got was +=  Embarrassed
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OrangeCounty
Full Member
***
Offline


You played that like it
was a good move!

Posts: 171
Joined: 05/26/10
Re: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #4 - 07/26/11 at 21:18:28
Post Tools
I have the Steffen Pedersen book on "The Main line French 3. Nc3".  It's a bit dated now, but it is a reasonable resource on the Rubinstein, which will have seen theoretical developments since publication but probably does not require most amateurs taking up the opening to know each one.

The nice thing about the Rubinstein is that you only have to learn the one structure, because you have the same system against 3.Nd2 and 3.Nc3.  One thing to keep in mind is that the Bc8 is still a problem piece; ...dxe4 doesn't solve this problem, although it probably makes it easier to solve.
« Last Edit: 07/27/11 at 01:13:45 by OrangeCounty »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #3 - 07/26/11 at 20:48:27
Post Tools
"Ressources"...I will advice chesspublishing updates (look at Neil Mc Donald updates..you will get many ideas)... Smiley ...not because J.Watson not delt them but because Neil advocates sometimes the Fort Knox.

Vitiugov's book ("The French Defence - A complete Black repertoire" - ChessStars - ISBN13: 978 954 8782 76-0)  is good ....
....but for beginner I will advice first "Chess Explained - The French" Eingorn & Bogdanov's book - Gambit ISBN-13: 978-1-904600-95-4 maybe because of style for writing explanations for the beginner-intermediate level.

Vitiugov's book has 45 small pages about it and Eingorn&Bogdanov's 15 big pages.

I found also very useful the commented games by Yussupov in one Europe Echecs...and also Psakhis comments (about the comparative virtues of ooo and oo for White as attacking lines). The variation is often used now at top level GM...and I advice you to search for Bareev's games as Black.

  

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 371
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #2 - 07/26/11 at 17:59:46
Post Tools
The book "Action Chess" by Purdy is collection of articles with an easy to learn opening repertoire. I don't agree with his choice of a quiet, positional, "safe" repertoire as the way to go for beginners, which is what he was recommending, but it's still well written. His recommendation against 1. e4 was the Rubinstein French with 4. ... Be7 instead of the 4. ... Bd7 of the Fort Knox. Even though it's old, if you're really that interested in the Rubinstein, it should be worth checking out.

  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1642 from coming back rusty, so trying to get back to that level
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2748
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Rubinstein Variation/s
Reply #1 - 07/26/11 at 17:10:59
Post Tools
Vitiugov -  a short book I previously denounced before reading it. I was wrong - it is a very good book and gives Rubinsteins as a back-up line.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Krames
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 7
Joined: 07/04/11
C11: Rubinstein Variation/s
07/26/11 at 15:29:11
Post Tools
Folks,

Are there any books or other resources that you can recommend with regards to the Rubinstein Variation/s?
I'd like to kc3 and or kd2 with dxe. I've read through the Fort Knox info in McDonald's How to Play against 1 e4, but I'd like a look at some other ideas . . . Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!
-Ted
« Last Edit: 07/27/11 at 15:03:44 by Smyslov_Fan »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo