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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Eternity is long, especially near the end. (Read 15140 times)
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #33 - 11/03/11 at 13:35:00
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Cool

Very nice, Alias. I have a sudden craving for tea and cake.
  
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #32 - 11/03/11 at 10:46:37
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À la recherche du quotes perdu?
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #31 - 11/03/11 at 10:42:16
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A week ago I relayed our discussion to the http://quoteinvestigator.com/ - a site I happened to come across that day. And today I got a reply:

Quote:
Thank you for sending an entertaining statement attributed to Woody Allen to the Quote Investigator. Every message is read and a preliminary search is performed for each quotation. But I have a large and apparently ever growing set of investigations to perform. So I cannot fully explore each phrase sent to me.

Since this saying about eternity is such a fun quote I allocated some extra time. Unfortunately the earliest citations I located were all in French, and I do not have the skills and databases necessary to perform a deep and thorough search in French. So I will have to suspend this exploration.

Sorry. I hope you will be able to find a French Quote Investigator.

Best wishes,
Garson O'Toole


Not so much new, but it seems the quote is most likely not a Woody Allen original. Anyone know of a French Quote Investigator?
  
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #30 - 08/26/11 at 13:06:10
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I just checked all early movies in which Allen acted . I stopped at Annie Hall, which I have seen. I am pretty sure I would have remembered the quote, which was new for me.
Result: zero.
But absence of proof is no proof of absence.
  

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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #29 - 08/26/11 at 07:05:44
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MNb wrote on 08/25/11 at 22:16:27:
Markovich wrote on 08/25/11 at 17:12:54:
I wish someone would damn well take note of my having said that I clearly recall hearing Allen say these words in one of his movies.

Yeah, but two witnesses are better than one. Testis unus testis nullus.


As they say in the movies, I believe that Markovich believes that Allen said this in a film.

But human memory is very unreliable, and without a reference to a specific film or even plot content / circumstances to why it was said - and with no mention of such a film reference to be found on the net, I doubt that he said it in a film. Maybe a quick remark by Allen in a tv-show, documentary or similar has been turned into a line in a film by his memory - stranger things have happened.

Woody Allen has a lot of fans and funny quotes so it's not very likely that this specific quote would not be referenced by someone while so many other lesser films have their own web pages of best quotes.

For example, I watched one yesterday and doubt anyone would have trouble finding what film this is from, even though it's not an exact quote:

"Do you believe me now? The Devil has blown up your church!"
"It wasn't the Devil, it was those God-damned Baptists!"
  
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MNb
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #28 - 08/25/11 at 22:16:27
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Markovich wrote on 08/25/11 at 17:12:54:
I wish someone would damn well take note of my having said that I clearly recall hearing Allen say these words in one of his movies.

Yeah, but two witnesses are better than one. Testis unus testis nullus.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #27 - 08/25/11 at 17:49:41
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Markovich wrote on 08/25/11 at 17:12:54:
Allen definitely did say this, the only question is whether it was original.

I agree.
  
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #26 - 08/25/11 at 17:12:54
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AlanG wrote on 08/25/11 at 16:45:00:
MNb wrote on 08/25/11 at 16:39:44:
AlanG wrote on 08/23/11 at 20:49:34:
Do you mean that you are still confident that it's in the book, even though it can't be found on Amazon search (or on Google books) ?

Do you mean Murphy and Wilson are wrong or lying, even though you haven't read the book yourself?
It's not about confidence, it's about accepting the secondary source or not.

I mean they may be mistaken. Perhaps I would have more confidence in their reference if they had given a page number.


I wish someone would damn well take note of my having said that I clearly recall hearing Allen say these words in one of his movies.  Unless anyone doubts my avowal, that entirely obviates the question of whether Allen also said it in any given book.  Allen definitely did say this, the only question is whether it was original.

I have searched my memory and my very dim recollection is that it was one of Allen's earlier movies.
  

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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #25 - 08/25/11 at 16:47:54
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AlanG wrote on 08/25/11 at 16:41:28:
the important thing is that the book is from 1965. That seems a bit too early to have been a translation from Allen (not impossible, but unlikely).

Ah, Allen loses his (0,1) point. His book is from 1980. I quit the Allen camp, even though I am not willing yet to assume it's not in his book.

AlanG wrote on 08/25/11 at 16:41:28:
So perhaps it's originally a French expression, author unknown.

Now the obvious question is: who was that Czech? Is there any indication that Frot had Kafka in mind? And can the two be linked, directly or indirectly?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #24 - 08/25/11 at 16:45:00
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MNb wrote on 08/25/11 at 16:39:44:
AlanG wrote on 08/23/11 at 20:49:34:
Do you mean that you are still confident that it's in the book, even though it can't be found on Amazon search (or on Google books) ?

Do you mean Murphy and Wilson are wrong or lying, even though you haven't read the book yourself?
It's not about confidence, it's about accepting the secondary source or not.

I mean they may be mistaken. Perhaps I would have more confidence in their reference if they had given a page number.
  
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #23 - 08/25/11 at 16:41:28
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TalJechin wrote on 08/25/11 at 16:07:01:
"Eternity is very long, especially towards the end." Woody Allen, Just Six Numbers, Martin Rees, page 71 »

http://www.amazon.com/Just-Six-Numbers-Forces-Universe/dp/0465036732/ref=sr_1_1?...

Still no original source given, at least not by searching the content on amazon. But maybe it gives Allen the lead 0.1 - 0

I'm not sure this is enough for a point, or else Woody Allen would be well in the lead. There are lots of attributions to Allen that don't give an original source.

There are similar ones (but fewer) for Kafka. For example, "Le Dictionnaire des citations du XXe siècle" Jérôme Duhamel, Albin-Michel 1999. It gives "Journées intimes" by Francois Bott as its source, and of course he doesn't give any source.

I think the French version of the quote (at least) probably pre-dates Allen. For example it appears in the novel "Le roi des rats" by Maurice Frot (you can find this on Google books, but only in snippet view). He seems to be attributing it, obliquely, to Kafka ("disait le Tchèque") but the important thing is that the book is from 1965. That seems a bit too early to have been a translation from Allen (not impossible, but unlikely).

I think it's interesting that only in France does there seem to be any doubt that it's by Woody Allen. Maybe people are aware that the phrase is older than that, even if they're not sure about its exact origin. So perhaps it's originally a French expression, author unknown.
  
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #22 - 08/25/11 at 16:39:44
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AlanG wrote on 08/23/11 at 20:49:34:
Do you mean that you are still confident that it's in the book, even though it can't be found on Amazon search (or on Google books) ?

Do you mean Murphy and Wilson are wrong or lying, even though you haven't read the book yourself?
It's not about confidence, it's about accepting the secondary source or not.
What's more, there is not the slightest indication that Kafka brought this quote up. JEH gives another version, but that's far from unique. I can give several examples of quotes which are not original, including Kennedy, Churchill and Marx.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #21 - 08/25/11 at 16:21:36
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According to Marvin, "The first ten million years were the worst, and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline."
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #20 - 08/25/11 at 16:07:01
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"Eternity is very long, especially towards the end." Woody Allen, Just Six Numbers, Martin Rees, page 71 »

http://www.amazon.com/Just-Six-Numbers-Forces-Universe/dp/0465036732/ref=sr_1_1?...

Still no original source given, at least not by searching the content on amazon. But maybe it gives Allen the lead 0.1 - 0
  
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Re: Eternity is long, especially near the end.
Reply #19 - 08/23/11 at 21:19:18
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AlanG wrote on 08/23/11 at 20:49:34:
MNb wrote on 08/23/11 at 20:28:17:
Is there any reason to distrust Niall Murphy and David Wilson? If we are going to accept Alan G's argument we pretty much can delete almost everything we pretend to know about Ancient History. As far as I am concerned: as long as nobody shows up who actually read the book and testifies that's not in it, I assume it is. If such evidence is not to thin for a scholar on Antiquitiy it's not to thin for me either.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Do you mean that you are still confident that it's in the book, even though it can't be found on Amazon search (or on Google books) ?


It does contain 23 hits for the word "end" but none of them is a hit either. So, it's 0-0 again.
  
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