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Normal Topic Saemisch Gambit Declined: one thing I've wondered (Read 5280 times)
OrangeCounty
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Re: Saemisch Gambit Declined: one thing I've wondered
Reply #3 - 10/18/11 at 21:53:32
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I'm not an expert on the Accelerated Dragon either, but I would imagine the reason this is not trotted out as a repertoire choice or hasn't become that popular is temperamental rather than objective.  Black can't force the Maroczy setup in the KID, so folks who play the KID will tend to go for a Benoni or Benko style position in the Samisch Gambit Declined, rather than transposing to (and preparing) the Bind in the one game out of ten where White allows the SG, declines it, and fails to play d4-d5 immediately.

That said, I did it once in a rapid tournament, I think; I had played the KID to avoid the Benoni MML (which I had a lopsided minus score in with my opponent).
  
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MNb
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Re: Saemisch Gambit Declined: one thing I've wondered
Reply #2 - 10/18/11 at 02:39:41
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kylemeister wrote on 10/17/11 at 20:11:25:
I would have thought that White should be slightly handicapped in comparison to regular Maroczys

Now I'm absolutely not an expert on the Accelerated Dragon, but I'm not sure if you are right. Via the KID Black avoids 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.c4 Nf6 6.Nc3 Nxd4 7.Qxd4 d6 8.f3 Bg7 9.Be3 O-O 10.Qd2.

Of course Black doesn't have to exchange on d4. Then we get something like 5...Bg7 (instead of 5...Nf6) 6.Be3 Nf6 7.Nc3 O-O 8.f3 d6 and this is not so regular indeed. The transposition from the Sämisch is 6.Be3 c5 7.Nge2 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nc6.
Now 9.Qd2 can be answered with Nxd4 and 10.Bxd4 doesn't score as well as the Maroczy Line with 7.Qxd4 above. Still on ELO 2500+ level Black's results are not encouraging. There are a few annotated games in my db and everybody seems to grant White a +=.
White can also play 9.Be2 when ...Nxd4 might be even less attractive.
The problem is that 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.c4 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7.Nc3 O-O is considered somewhat inferior anyway. So even without the option f2-f4 White might have an edge.
In the Sämisch there is moreover 6.Be3 c5 7.Nge2 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nc6 9.Nc2. This tends to transpose to 5.c4 Bg7 6.Nc2 d6 lines and Black has not the annoying f7-f5 available anymore. So in the end Black might be the one who is handicapped.
  

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ErictheRed
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Re: Saemisch Gambit Declined: one thing I've wondered
Reply #1 - 10/17/11 at 21:07:36
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I think the idea is that Black would like to wait until White plays a sub-optimal move before releasing the tension.  For instance, comparing 7...Nc6 8.Qd2 cd 9.Nxd4 to 7...cd 8.Nxd4 Nc6 9.Be2, I think White would rather have the Bishop on e2 than the Queen on d2.  Kind of like the "battle of the tempo" in QGD positions.  Also, there might be stylistic reasons: KID players might like facing 7...Nc6 8.d5 Ne5 more than playing a Maroczy Bind structure.  But I don't know of any genuine theoretical problem with 7...cd.
  
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kylemeister
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Saemisch Gambit Declined: one thing I've wondered
10/17/11 at 20:11:25
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...is why, after 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 0-0 6. Be3 c5 7. Nge2, 7...cd seems to get so little attention.  For example, several books I checked don't mention it, nor does at least the free summary of Fluffy's October update.  I would have thought that White should be slightly handicapped in comparison to regular Maroczys (for example in not having the option of playing for a direct f4 and f5 when Black is playing ...Nxd4 and ...Be6), perhaps with the effect of moving the theoretical needle from += to =. 
  
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