to continue on my previous post, I think it's better for black to play Bh3 on move 7, I can't find a clear refutation here
but then delaying Bg2 with 7.a3 (or maybe 7.h3 in case of Bg4) looks very interesting...

against 5.Nbd2 Bg4/Be6 6.g3 Qd7 7.Bg2 O-O-O 8.O-O Bh3 I like 9.e6 Bxe6 10.Ng5
in all the other lines I could find something playable for black, but here white has an unopposed g2-bishop and I really can't find anything decent
b4 is often a good pawn sac: 10...Nf6 11.b4 /10...Kb8 11.b4 /10...Nge7 11.b4 /10...Be7 11.Nxe6 Qxe6 12.b4 but white has other good options as well

after 5...Be6 and 5...Bg4 I intend to transpose to the old main line with 6.g3 (having avoided the 5.g3 Nge7 line), Black has some active plans of course, but I doubt it is theoretically sound

Bubu13 wrote on 12/18/11 at 15:03:20:

but what about 5.Nbd2 Bf5 6.Nb3 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 Be7 8.Na5, and now for example 8...Nxa5 9.Bxa5 b6 10.Bd2 Qd7 11.e3 dxe3 12.Bxe3 Bb4+ 13.Bd2 Bxd2+ 14.Qxd2 Ne7 15.O-O-O
I also looked at 6.Nb3 Qe7 but here I think I found a strong exchange sac for white: 7.g3 O-O-O (7...f6 8.exf6 Nxf6 9.Bg2 d3 10.e3; 7...Nxe5 8.Nxe5 Qxe5 9.Qxd4 Bb4+ 10.Bd2 Bxd2+ 11.Qxd2 Rd8 12.Qc3 Qxc3+ 13.bxc3) 8.Bg2 d3 9.O-O dxe2 10.Qxe2 Bd3 11.Qd1!

Avrukh gives 5.a3 Bg4 6.Nbd2 Qe7 7.b4 but I think 5.Nbd2 Bg4 6.g3 may be better

From the lines given so far, I still prefer 5...Bf5- it seems to me that Black has to accept a modest theoretical disadvantage but gets counterplay, whereas I don't like Black's position after 10-15 moves of the aforementioned game in the 5...Nge7 line.  Black is essentially relying upon White messing up in an endgame with a significantly-devalued pawn plus.

I tried out the 5...Bf5 6.a3 Qe7 line in a recent simul and lost, but I feel that I actually got a decent position out of the opening- my opponent just handled the complications better than I did around moves 10-15 and emerged with advantage.

Bubu13 wrote on 08/15/12 at 14:02:27:


At a high level it appears to me that White lost due to some weak endgame play rather than as a direct result of the opening.  Notice how White was ineffective in launching counter play and allowed Black to use his king unopposed in support of  advancing his queenside pawns.  White never brought her king into play and the bishop was largely passive.

Finally, i found an other idea to (maybe) save the day of the morozevich way of play : 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 d4 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Nbd2! Nge7 6.Nb3! Nf5 7.e4!? dxe3 8.QxQd8 ... and now : 8.... KxQd8 !? The idea is to keep the e5 pawn under the knight pressure. 9. fxe3 Bb4+ 10. Kf2 Nh6!? 11.h3 Re8 12.e4 Nxe5 and in case of 12.... BxNh6 13.gxBh6 the bishops pair is a compensation vs the wrecked structure ...
What do you think about this ?

Yes, I don't think Black's chances are too bad at all in that last position.  White might have improvements though, e.g. 12.e4 h6 13.Nf3 Bg4 14.h3 Bxf3 (14...Bh5 15.g4 Bg6 16.Bd3 +=) 15.Qxf3 Nxe5 16.Qf4 Qe6 +=.  I think the line must be +=, though Black does have some compensation for the pawn.

6.a3 (the best response to 5...Be6) might also be best after 5...Bf5, as after 6...Qd7 7.b4 0-0-0 8.Nb3 White's attack should indeed be faster than Black's (probably += to +/-).  That might not be the last word, though, for Rybka's first choice after 6.a3 is 6...Qe7 eyeing the e5-pawn as well as planning to castle queenside, while ...f6 is also possible at an opportune moment.  For instance 7.b4 0-0-0 8.Nb3 is no longer as effective because of 8...f6 intending 9...Nxe5 (8...Nxe5 is also possible), and after 9.exf6 Nxf6 10.Bb2 Ne4 Black has a lot of activity.  7.Nb3 0-0-0 8.Bf4 (8.g3 Nxe5) 8...f6 9.exf6 Nxf6 also gives Black good play.  Unlike after the immediate 5...f6, Black appears to get strong tactical chances in these 5...Bf5 and later ...f6 lines, and the bishop on f5 is ideally placed to support the ...d4-d3 push.

Or is there some published refutation that I'm unaware of?

Yeah, that line is similar to 5...Be6 6.a3 Qd7 7.b4- White gets a rapid ready-made attack on the queenside.

Here's an interesting article on 5.Nbd2:
http://www.chessbase.com/newsroom2.asp?id=6154

After 5.Nbd2 Be6 6.Nb3 the article implies that Black does best with ...Bb4+ but claims an advantage for White in all lines after 6.a3, preventing ...Bb4+ and following up with 7.Nb3 in most cases- indeed play can transpose to MNb's game.

Michael Goeller has an analysis of some relevant lines here:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/summer05/albin-nge7.htm

I think if I was Black in this line I would try to avoid that particular ending.  In the meantime 5...Bf5!? is worth a look, though I imagine that White should still get some advantage using the familiar plan of Nd2-b3 and a3 to attack the d4-pawn.

Bubu13 wrote on 12/15/11 at 16:08:21:

Yes, was. 15...Nd3+ 16.Bxd3 Rxd3 (Bxa3 17.Rd1) 17.Nc2 Be7 18.Ke2 and I don't see Black's compensation.

To MNb : 15. ... Nd3+ !? seems to be better, doesn't it ? The Na3 is "en prise" !?
Was : 5. ... Be6 your favorite move against the 5.Nbd2 line ?

is 5. ...Nge7 considered as best? What about ...Be6 and Bg4? Houdini thinks about ....f6!?

OK ! So, dear Albin devotees, what is your opinion : do you dodge the whole line by playing something else after 5.Nbd2 or do you accept this line as playable but slightly inferior, hoping for a white mistake in the middlegame ?

Bubu13 wrote on 11/17/11 at 08:44:45:

I've found two corr.games but not of high quality: