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Normal Topic source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6 (Read 2963 times)
Paddy
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Re: source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6
Reply #9 - 05/15/17 at 16:08:52
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 05/13/17 at 19:47:29:
Hi.

Maybe the natural 21.Nf2 is wrong though (21.a4!?). The knight may actually be better on h3 where it holds up black's kingside play somewhat.

Have a nice day.


Thanks for the sample lines! Yes, maybe 21 a4 is better.
I'm finding this whole line quite difficult to analyse and assess and the engines only help to a certain degree.
It's an issue of Bind vs. Material, and the difficulties are in ascertaining how enduring Black's bind is, whether the bind can/should be exploited to regain material, whether White can release the bind, and if so at what cost.
  
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Re: source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6
Reply #8 - 05/13/17 at 19:47:29
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Hi.

Maybe the natural 21.Nf2 is wrong though (21.a4!?). The knight may actually be better on h3 where it holds up black's kingside play somewhat.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6
Reply #7 - 05/13/17 at 19:42:44
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Hello.

Paddy wrote on 05/13/17 at 13:32:14:
Thanks for your thoughts! I agree that 13 Qf4 also deserves attention.
After 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6 4. Qa4+ Bd7 5. Qb3 e6!? 6. Qxb7 exd5 7. Qxa8 Qc7 8. Na3! c4! 9. Bxc4 dxc4 10. Qf3 Bxa3 11. bxa3 O-O 12. Ne2 Bc6 13. Qf4 Qxf4!? 14. Nxf4 Re8+ 15. Kf1 (15. Kd1?? Ba4 is mate!) the engines favour White with his extra material, but I don't think many human players would feel very comfortable after say 15...g5 16. Nh3 Be4 17. Bb2 Bd3+ 18. Kg1 Re2 19. Rd1 and here I suggest that instead of chasing material Black might do best to play for blockade with say 19...h6 20. f3 Nbd7 21. Nf2 Ne5. Over to you.
(pgn attached)

The above plan looks to hold up. Black seems to be able to get a possibly defensible rook endgame quite easily as well. Remarkable and perhaps indicative of how hard it can be for the materially richer player to untangle sometimes.



Have a nice day.


  

Alapin_2___d5_with_3___Nf6.pgn ( 2 KB | 19 Downloads )
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Paddy
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Re: source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6
Reply #6 - 05/13/17 at 13:32:14
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 05/13/17 at 06:53:09:
Hello.

Paddy wrote on 05/13/17 at 01:00:54:
Food for thought, I hope. I'd welcome other opinions on this line!

Opinion:
Cool line Cool.

Maybe:
1.e4 c5 2.c3 d5 3.exd5 Nf6 4.Qa4+ Bd7 5.Qb3 e6 6.Qxb7 exd5 7.Qxa8 Qc7 8.Na3 c4 9.Bxc4 dxc4 10.Qf3 Bxa3 11.bxa3 O-O 12.Ne2 Bc6 13.Qf4 Qe7 14.Qxc4
Is more practical. If:
14...Re8 15.0-0 Qxe2 16.Qxe2 Rxe2
A purely technical position is reached; where white looks slightly for choice.

Have a nice day.


Thanks for your thoughts! I agree that 13 Qf4 also deserves attention.
After 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6 4. Qa4+ Bd7 5. Qb3 e6!? 6. Qxb7 exd5 7. Qxa8 Qc7 8. Na3! c4! 9. Bxc4 dxc4 10. Qf3 Bxa3 11. bxa3 O-O 12. Ne2 Bc6 13. Qf4 Qxf4!? 14. Nxf4 Re8+ 15. Kf1 (15. Kd1?? Ba4 is mate!) the engines favour White with his extra material, but I don't think many human players would feel very comfortable after say 15...g5 16. Nh3 Be4 17. Bb2 Bd3+ 18. Kg1 Re2 19. Rd1 and here I suggest that instead of chasing material Black might do best to play for blockade with say 19...h6 20. f3 Nbd7 21. Nf2 Ne5. Over to you.
(pgn attached)
  

B22_13_05_2017_01.pgn ( 0 KB | 17 Downloads )
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Re: source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6
Reply #5 - 05/13/17 at 06:53:09
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Hello.

Paddy wrote on 05/13/17 at 01:00:54:
Food for thought, I hope. I'd welcome other opinions on this line!

Opinion:
Cool line Cool.

Maybe:
1.e4 c5 2.c3 d5 3.exd5 Nf6 4.Qa4+ Bd7 5.Qb3 e6 6.Qxb7 exd5 7.Qxa8 Qc7 8.Na3 c4 9.Bxc4 dxc4 10.Qf3 Bxa3 11.bxa3 O-O 12.Ne2 Bc6 13.Qf4 Qe7 14.Qxc4
Is more practical. If:
14...Re8 15.0-0 Qxe2 16.Qxe2 Rxe2
A purely technical position is reached; where white looks slightly for choice.

Have a nice day.
  
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Paddy
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Re: source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6
Reply #4 - 05/13/17 at 01:00:54
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GM Daniel King chose this still rare line as his recommendation for Black in his Power Play 21 DVD on the Anti-Sicilians (2014). Despite quite healthy statistics, it cannot really be said that this line has caught on with strong players, perhaps because Black needs to be well prepared against several quite serious attempts at refutation.

One of these is 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6 4. Qa4+, when King gave 4...Nbd7 and after 5 c4 e6 6 dxe6 he examined both 6...fxe6 and 6...Qe7, neither of which seemed particularly convincing to me; clearly Black has some compensation for the pawn (it's the backward one on d2 after all) but unlike comparable positions in the 1 e4 c5 2 f4 d5 3 exd5 Nf6 line, White has not weakened his position with f4.

There has been a recent development though. In the last round of this season's 4NCL Division 3N, the fast-improving Irish junior Tom O'Gorman parried 4.Qa4+ with 4...Bd7 and after 5.Qb3 he simply ignored the threat to his b7-pawn and continued with 5...e6, which seems to be new. White (FM Stuart Clarke) got into an awful tangle after 6. Qxb7 exd5 7. Qxa8 Qc7 (preventing the queen's escape and threatening ...Bc6) 8. a4?! Bd6! (developing; not 8...Bc6? 9 Bb5) 9. Bb5 O-O 10. Nf3 Re8+ 11. Kd1 and White eventually lost.

At first I thought that this line could easily be improved with 8. Na3 (developing a piece and creating a counter-threat of Nb5, winning) when 8...c4 semes to be the only move, to which White's best answer seemed to be 9. Bxc4 dxc4, allowing the queen to escape with 10. Qf3, when White has won the exchange. I left the engine examining this, confident that White "must" be winning now, but in fact after a while Stockfish 8 judges that Black has more than enough compensation, after e.g. 10...Bxa3 11. bxa3 O-O 12. Ne2 Bc6 13. Qg3 Qe7 14. Qe3 Qb7 15. f3 Re8.

Food for thought, I hope. I'd welcome other opinions on this line!
  
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Re: source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6
Reply #3 - 01/11/12 at 21:02:03
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Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but John Emms in DW: The Sicilian covers after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 a6 3.c3 d5 4. exd5 both 4...Qxd5 and 4...Nf6!?
  
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Re: source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6
Reply #2 - 01/10/12 at 19:17:08
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Thank you! It's interesting.
  

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Re: source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6
Reply #1 - 01/10/12 at 18:12:51
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Alexander Finkel explores “A Scandinavian Motif in the Alapin” 1.e4 c5 2.c3 d5 3.exd5 Nf6; - http://www.chessville.com/reviews/SOS9.htm
  
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source on 1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6
01/09/12 at 19:10:41
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Hello! Does anyone know, in which book following variation was advocated for black:

1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. exd5 Nf6 ?

I think it was in one of the everyman books. Am I right?


  

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