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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook (Read 37092 times)
MartinC
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #63 - 02/06/13 at 10:50:04
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Some rather stronger folk than that taking on the Keres in recent times....

The Nc6/e6/d6 stuff is a fully playable move order and certainly gives some extra options vs 6 g4.

Being commited to the full theory after 6 Bc4 isn't trivial - with black commited to Nc6 its dangerous - and there's also a commitment to Nc6 vs 6 Be3.

A matter of taste really Smiley (and non trivial earlier discussion if you search here.).
  
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ako
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #62 - 02/06/13 at 10:34:02
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By the way. Can one avoid the Keres attack by 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 d6?

I see only one real problem, Karpov's  6.g4 (this is rare is practice). Is this really SO much better for white, that it should be avoided?

And 6.Bc4. This is not a big THEORETICAL problem really, but the nice -Na6-c5 idea cannot be used now.

P.S. Is the normal Keres attack (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6 6.g4) really SO dangerous, that a 2100-player like me should avoid it at all cost? I don't really think so. I and most of my opponents play too bad chess for the ABSOLUTE theoretical status (= or +=) being important.  Perhaps the situation becomes different after someone reaching 2300-2400.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #61 - 09/22/12 at 15:31:00
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Well, there are books by Emms and by Pritchett that have been published within the last ten years. There's also the work by Khalifman in OFWAA 13. If I'm going to buy a book, I don't care so much whether it's up-to-date, but whether the analysis and ideas presented will stand up to scrutiny.
  
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bobbyh64
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #60 - 09/22/12 at 13:59:34
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/22/12 at 04:25:41:
So, to sum up,

Is this the best book on Scheveningen available in English right now?

I do play 2...e6. In fact, I'm furious that a good book on the Sicilian covers my move order to reach the Scheveningen.!
Smiley


Yes, it's the best book on the Scheveningen in English right now! Then again, I think it's the only book on the Scheveningen right now. Tongue But it is a very good book. I agree 2...e6 is a very nice move order.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #59 - 09/22/12 at 04:25:41
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So, to sum up,

Is this the best book on Scheveningen available in English right now?

I do play 2...e6. In fact, I'm furious that a good book on the Sicilian covers my move order to reach the Scheveningen.!
Smiley
  
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MartinC
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #58 - 09/21/12 at 10:18:13
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You seemed to be talking about one move Smiley If it was a concrete variation as in the computer spying some concrete tactics refuting a suggested main line it'd obviously be rather more serious.

If its 'just' a subtly different piece set up that the computers algorithm seems to slightly prefer a priori with nothing concrete to back it up then it really isn't.
  
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bobbyh64
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #57 - 09/21/12 at 07:29:52
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ErictheRed wrote on 09/20/12 at 16:23:06:
bobbyh64 wrote on 09/20/12 at 05:15:12:
ErictheRed wrote on 09/19/12 at 15:24:18:
bobbyh64 wrote on 09/19/12 at 04:39:46:
kylemeister wrote on 09/19/12 at 03:40:06:
Maybe you should say, "Hey Houdini, how do you think this compares to that Ponomariov game?".


The Ponomariov game is a different line. In the line I gave White doesn't play Rg3.


Wow, Kylemeister's comment really flew right over your head, huh Bobby?


Not really. In a sharp opening every tempo counts, so if Houdini prefers Nxc6 and Qf3 right away instead of Rg3, then there's a difference, and the tempo can be used for something more useful.


No, I think you missed his point (which I agree with), which was more philosophical and less "chessical."  But it doesn't matter.


Okay, but what's philosophical about a specific variation in a sharp opening? I was talking about a concrete variation.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #56 - 09/20/12 at 16:23:06
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bobbyh64 wrote on 09/20/12 at 05:15:12:
ErictheRed wrote on 09/19/12 at 15:24:18:
bobbyh64 wrote on 09/19/12 at 04:39:46:
kylemeister wrote on 09/19/12 at 03:40:06:
Maybe you should say, "Hey Houdini, how do you think this compares to that Ponomariov game?".


The Ponomariov game is a different line. In the line I gave White doesn't play Rg3.


Wow, Kylemeister's comment really flew right over your head, huh Bobby?


Not really. In a sharp opening every tempo counts, so if Houdini prefers Nxc6 and Qf3 right away instead of Rg3, then there's a difference, and the tempo can be used for something more useful.


No, I think you missed his point (which I agree with), which was more philosophical and less "chessical."  But it doesn't matter.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #55 - 09/20/12 at 09:52:03
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This really isn't a terribly sharp position anymore - black goes Ng8 quite a bit for instance! - and moreover it's one which has been studied in GM practice for quite a long time.

As such their accumulated wisdom is much more likely to trump mild computer preferences.

Not that I'd claim this book to automatically personify all of that Smiley Some of it I'm sure, but it's not meant as a thorough survey. A good database search/study will show you what tends to work for both sides here.
  
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bobbyh64
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #54 - 09/20/12 at 05:15:12
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ErictheRed wrote on 09/19/12 at 15:24:18:
bobbyh64 wrote on 09/19/12 at 04:39:46:
kylemeister wrote on 09/19/12 at 03:40:06:
Maybe you should say, "Hey Houdini, how do you think this compares to that Ponomariov game?".


The Ponomariov game is a different line. In the line I gave White doesn't play Rg3.


Wow, Kylemeister's comment really flew right over your head, huh Bobby?


Not really. In a sharp opening every tempo counts, so if Houdini prefers Nxc6 and Qf3 right away instead of Rg3, then there's a difference, and the tempo can be used for something more useful.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #53 - 09/19/12 at 19:29:57
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To be fair white probably does have a small plus in that position.

Although if you're going to stop using openings because white has a small advantage in the critical lines after 12 moves you're really going to struggle Smiley
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #52 - 09/19/12 at 15:24:18
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bobbyh64 wrote on 09/19/12 at 04:39:46:
kylemeister wrote on 09/19/12 at 03:40:06:
Maybe you should say, "Hey Houdini, how do you think this compares to that Ponomariov game?".


The Ponomariov game is a different line. In the line I gave White doesn't play Rg3.


Wow, Kylemeister's comment really flew right over your head, huh Bobby?
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #51 - 09/19/12 at 09:50:10
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I like this book. Its a repertoire book. He recommends classical scheveningen (with -a6). He starts the book with a chapter on Kasparov playing the opening. He recommends h6 against Keres attack (although I prefer Nc6 which Kasparov and Nikitin gives an '!' in their book).
He explains strategy and ideas well in the book. Its easy to navigate in the book and find what you want.
Scheveningen is a fantastic sicilian opening to study and play. For me its the "metropol" of all sicilians. Not so extremely theoretical as the Najdorf. A better practical choice where the slightest mistake wont cost you the game. And aslo against the anti-sicilians you have more options if you play 2...e6. (avoiding sicilian Moscow and get other options against the Closed sicilian and Grand Prix).

I give the book  Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley out of 5
  

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  where the path back out is only broad enough for one of you." (((Mikhail Tal)))
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #50 - 09/19/12 at 09:26:00
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What is the people's opinion on the book, for those who have it?
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #49 - 09/19/12 at 09:01:46
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bobbyh64 wrote on 09/19/12 at 01:38:14:
According to Houdini 2.0c, White gets a plus after 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. g4 h6 7. h4 Nc6 8. Rg1 h5 9. gxh5 Nxh5 10. Bg5 Nf6 11. Nxc6 bxc6 12. Qf3 +=.


In my humble experience an engine verdict after 12 moves (aside from sharp lines with a very early crisis) is completely irrelevant.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #48 - 09/19/12 at 04:39:46
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kylemeister wrote on 09/19/12 at 03:40:06:
Maybe you should say, "Hey Houdini, how do you think this compares to that Ponomariov game?".


The Ponomariov game is a different line. In the line I gave White doesn't play Rg3.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #47 - 09/19/12 at 03:40:06
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Maybe you should say, "Hey Houdini, how do you think this compares to that Ponomariov game?".
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #46 - 09/19/12 at 01:38:14
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According to Houdini 2.0c, White gets a plus after 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. g4 h6 7. h4 Nc6 8. Rg1 h5 9. gxh5 Nxh5 10. Bg5 Nf6 11. Nxc6 bxc6 12. Qf3 +=.

  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #45 - 09/12/12 at 18:13:15
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The Shevy doesn't have anything very like 6 Bg5 or some of the Bc4 lines vs the Nardojf. The Be2/a6 stuff is very sharp and massive theory but isn't so insanely critical.

The place where you do get the ideas thing rather more is when black doesn't play an early a6.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #44 - 09/11/12 at 21:33:17
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in the book sample he says in the introduction that the Scheveningen is "ideas-based"
I really don't see that much difference with the Najdorf so I suppose it's just sales talk
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #43 - 09/10/12 at 13:26:50
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I'm surprised D'Costa doesn't mention the line
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. g4 h6 7. h4 Nc6 8. Rg1 h5 9. gxh5 Nxh5 10. Bg5 Nf6 11. Be2 a6 12. Qd2 Bd7 13. O-O-O b5 14. Nxc6 Bxc6 15. Qe3 Qc7 16. Nd5 Bxd5 17. exd5 e5 18. f4! with advantage for White.

  
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MartinC
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #42 - 05/04/12 at 20:51:13
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Well you can of course play the Nc6 English attack lines Wink But yes that move order commits to that, and to non trivial extra work vs 6 Bc4.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #41 - 05/04/12 at 20:38:20
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bobbyh64 wrote on 05/04/12 at 09:12:17:
If someone doesn't want to allow a 6.Bg5 Najdorf or the Keres Attack, then he/she can play the Taimanov move order (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6)! Of course, then you'd have to study 5.Nb5 d6 6.c4 and 6.Bf4.

No if you start with 2...Kc6 & 4...Qc7 before e6. The main drawback is you must tolerate an optimal version of the Qe1 & Qg3 Scheveningen because your queen is already committed to c7.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #40 - 05/04/12 at 16:14:28
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I do not think so, becuse if you want to play the Scheveningen English Attack, your knight is already on c6, and you cannot play the quick ...b5/b4. I think it works, however, against 6. Be2 and 6. g3. But if you want to play ...Nbd7 against the 6. f4 lines with the Taimanow, again it does not work.
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #39 - 05/04/12 at 09:12:17
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If someone doesn't want to allow a 6.Bg5 Najdorf or the Keres Attack, then he/she can play the Taimanov move order (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6)! Of course, then you'd have to study 5.Nb5 d6 6.c4 and 6.Bf4.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #38 - 04/29/12 at 01:06:44
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/28/12 at 22:22:31:
On 22. Bg5, how about 22...Qb6, which I got when I put Fritz on. Then the idea is 23...Rxc3. 23. exf5 Nfd5 24. Nxd5 Nxd5

0-0-0 needs to be replaced with O-O-O.

Strangely, using Fritz again, the line 20...gxh6 21. e5 dxe5 22. fxe5 Qxe5 23. Bf4 Qc5 24. Nb3 Qc6 25. Na5 Qa8 to avoid the idea Rg8 Nxg8 Qxd7 winning the rook on c8.



Doesn't 26.Be5 just win? On 26..Nbd5, Houdini gives 27.Bf3! +-

In your first line w 22..Qb6, 25.Nb3 and a subsequent Bf3 leaves White with a significant, if not winning, advantage. 

Thanks for the O-O-O tip.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #37 - 04/28/12 at 22:22:31
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On 22. Bg5, how about 22...Qb6, which I got when I put Fritz on. Then the idea is 23...Rxc3. 23. exf5 Nfd5 24. Nxd5 Nxd5

0-0-0 needs to be replaced with O-O-O.

Strangely, using Fritz again, the line 20...gxh6 21. e5 dxe5 22. fxe5 Qxe5 23. Bf4 Qc5 24. Nb3 Qc6 25. Na5 Qa8 to avoid the idea Rg8 Nxg8 Qxd7 winning the rook on c8.

  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #36 - 04/28/12 at 22:18:49
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Has to be upper case letters for the castling it seems. Thus:

  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #35 - 04/28/12 at 20:34:08
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/28/12 at 19:52:36:
On 20...h6, why not 21. f5 gxf5 22. exf5 e5? Then White must retreat the knight either to b3 or f3. In either case that loses the f5-pawn: 23. Nb3/Nf3 Bxf5.

If White does not advance with 21. f5, then Black should probably continue with ...Qa5 with the idea of ...Rxc3.

So I do not think 20...Rxh6 is forced, and 20...g6 is best.

To use a diagram, type pgn in brackets before the moves and /pgn in brackets after the moves.


I assume you mean 20.h6 g6 21.f5 gxf5?  If so, I would probably play 22.Bg5! here.  The first idea is that 22..Nxe4 loses a piece.  And 22..fxe4 is met by 23.Bxf6 Bxf6 24.Rdf1! and so that if 24.. Bxd4 then 25.Qxd4 winning.  If 22..Nc6 then 23.Bxf6 Bxf6 24.Rg8 Ke7 25.Nxf5 exf5 26.Nd5 wins.  And if Black tries something like 22..Kf8 then 23.exf5 e5 24.Bxf6 Bxf6 25.Ne4 is strong.   

In your line, after 22.exf5 e5 White doesn't have to move the Knight.  He can again play to win with 23.Bg5 exd4 24.Qxd4 Nfd5 (if 24..Nbd5 one nice line is 25.Bxf6 Nxf6 26.Qxf6 Bxf6 27.Rg8 Ke7 29.Nd5#) 25.Bxe7 and I looked briefly at both ..Bxf5 and ..Nxc3 and think White is better.

Back to you.   Wink

ps -- thanks for the tip, but i still can't get the fen to work and the pgn won't recognize 0-0-0 as a move?
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #34 - 04/28/12 at 19:52:36
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On 20...h6, why not 21. f5 gxf5 22. exf5 e5? Then White must retreat the knight either to b3 or f3. In either case that loses the f5-pawn: 23. Nb3/Nf3 Bxf5.

If White does not advance with 21. f5, then Black should probably continue with ...Qa5 with the idea of ...Rxc3.

So I do not think 20...Rxh6 is forced, and 20...g6 is best.

To use a diagram, type pgn in brackets before the moves and /pgn in brackets after the moves.
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #33 - 04/28/12 at 19:21:00
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In the Keres Attack, after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6 6.g4 h6 7.h4 Nc6 8.Rg1 h5
9.gxh5 Nxh5 10.Bg5 Nf6 11.Be2 a6 12.h5 Bd7 13.Qd2
, D'Costa opts for the interesting 13..b5 14.a3 Rc8

Following one of his own games, he then continues with 15.0-0-0 b4 16.axb4 Nxb4 17.Kb1 Be7 18.Be3 Rh7 19.f4 Qc7, reaching a critical position. 

From here D'Costa analyzes 20.e5 and 20.f5.  But what if White first inserts 20.h6.

If Black reacts with the standard 20..g6, 21.f5 is much stronger than before.  Black no longer has ..e5 in response because of 22.fxg6 fxg6 23.Rxg6 when taking the Nd4 looks suicidal.  Does anyone see how Black survives? 

If Black instead tries 20..gxf6 then 21.e5! dxe5 (if 21. Nfd5 22.Rg8 Bf8 23.Ne4 and Nd6/Nxd6 is crushing) 22.fxe5 Qxe5 (if 22..Nfd5 23.Rg8+ wins) 23.Bf4 Qc5 24.Nb3and Black has a hard time holding on to the Bd7.  If  24..Qc6, for example, 25.Na5 and there are Rg8 and Be5 ideas in the air.

So is 20..Rxh6 forced?  21.Rxg7 Rh8 22.Bf3 or 21..Rh3 22.Bf1-g2 looks good for White, esp. with the Black King stuck in the center, but maybe Black holds on?  Doesn't look too appetizing. 

Have I missed something or is this line just good for White?

  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #32 - 04/22/12 at 05:05:05
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To be honest the last time (and only time) I played against the Scheveningen, I played the Keres Attack, under a psychological delusion that I was already winning since I thought most Scheveningen players nowadays tried to use the Najdorf move-order and that most would never dare to use the Scheveningen move order due to the Keres Attack. Nevertheless, after losing in about 25 moves, I noticed how it is not exactly easy to play the Keres against the Scheveningen.

The extremely substantial amount of theory in 6. Bg5 Najdorf might allow Scheveningen setup players to reconsider using the Scheveningen move order; it does not seem as if the Keres is as dangerous as the anterior reputation had indicated.

The problem is if the Najdorf player is a 6...e5 player. If one plays 6...e6 or both 6...e5 or 6...e6, then the Scheveningen move order is definitely a choice.

However currently, I am studying this book to use the Scheveningen and the transpositions to the 6...e6 Najdorf positions, despite the fact that I usually play 6...e5 in the Najdorf, and also if I see in a database that an opponent plays 6. Bg5 against Najdorf.
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #31 - 04/22/12 at 02:18:10
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/17/12 at 05:31:28:
Sorry, I meant 6. Bg5 in the Najdorf; I was preparing to play 6. Bg5 against my opponent a few years ago, who appeared to be a Najdorf player, but instead I had to play against the Scheveningen. I think this is also a good surprise opening for a Najdorf player.


Yes, you can avoid a whole book of material (The Complete Najdorf Bg5 by John Nunn) by just playing the Scheveningen.

It's not illegal for White to still play 6. Bg5, however after ...Be7 then the Najdorf mainline 7. f4 can be well countered by h6 followed by either Nxe4 or Nc6, both of which score high.
   
So after 6. Bg5 Be7 white's most popular 7th move falls to 7. Qd2, which would be a Rickter-Rauzer if black had moved Nc6 and not a6. But this delayed development of the knight and a start on the wing pawns make this attack a lot less good against the Scheveningen or Najdorf.

I think people want to pretend they're like Kasparov so they avoid the "feared Keres' Attack". The Keres' attack played properly is a positional opening where white tries to get a lasting advantage. So I don't know why we don't hear about "the feared Bg5 Sicilian" or "the feared English Attack", since they are pretty much about as dangerous.   
 
In theory there should be a kind of "supply and demand" scenario with chess openings that have clearly independant lines.... the less frequently an opening is played the less likely people are to know it, but typically also the less sound it is. So for example the Vienna isn't considered best, but they may not know it very well. Since the Scheveningen is only slightly inferior to the Najdorf, then there should be only slightly less people playing the Scheveningen. The super GMs seem to have the balance right for their level, where a number of them continue playing the Scheveningen.
   
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #30 - 04/17/12 at 19:37:09
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/17/12 at 04:14:53:
I play both ...e5 and ...e6 against the English Attack via the Najdorf, so it is not much additional to add in that variation, but there leaves the question of the Keres Attack or 6. Bg5. Most who prepare the Open Sicilian do not expect the Scheveningen move-order, and if they play the Keres Attack, are usually not as sufficiently prepared for it unless they prepare before the game after having known the opponent to play it. I know because I played the Open Sicilian against a 2350 who usually plays Najdorf but played the Scheveningen against me, probably as a surprise. I played  the Keres Attack and had a lost position within 25 moves since I forgot all of the theory there.



Just a heads up on the Englidh chapter, I am using both The Cutting Edge by QC and Play the Najdorf Scheveningen Style by John Emms to fill in the missing lines in this chapter...Just letting you know if you want to play a pure Scheveningen set-up, you will need other sources to fill in missing lines from this chapter, if you want to play the the English rep. in this book.

for example

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be3 a6 7. f3 b5 8. g4 h6 9. Qd2 b4 10. Na4 Nbd7 11. O-O-O Ne5  covered...


1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be3 a6 7. f3 b5 8. g4 h6 9. Qd2 b4 10. Na4 Nbd7 11. h4 d5 12. Bh3 dxe4

Covered in The Cutting Edge Najdorf 6.Be3

Also some lines missing in the Nb6 lines, but are covered in
Play the Najdorf Scheveningen Style by Emms.

Or you may have your own English rep. already and this won't be a problem, just a heads up!

Cool

Yes When I played 1.e4 against the Siclians I was not as booked up with the Keres as I was against most other Sicilians lines...



  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #29 - 04/17/12 at 06:14:06
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Probably most opponents will play the Keres, but not know as much theory as they not expect the Scheveningen. I never studied much the Keres Attack when I played 1. e4 since very rarely did anyone play the Scheveningen against me (probably only once), but I think 6...h6 is a good line. In fact this is the exact line that I lost against in less than 30 moves in that game I played a few years ago. I remember my kingside became too overextended and I ended up being attacked instead.
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #28 - 04/17/12 at 05:43:40
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My mistake, I read your post wrong you meant Bg5 vs. Keres.  Yes a good suprise weapon indeed...
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #27 - 04/17/12 at 05:31:28
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Sorry, I meant 6. Bg5 in the Najdorf; I was preparing to play 6. Bg5 against my opponent a few years ago, who appeared to be a Najdorf player, but instead I had to play against the Scheveningen. I think this is also a good surprise opening for a Najdorf player.
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #26 - 04/17/12 at 04:56:16
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As far as I know Bg5 is not very effective against the Scheveningen and looking at the chapter this seems true, and as for the Keres attack, I do not have much experience from the black side of the Keres in my games, but looking through the Keres Chapter I did not see anthing too scary for black and still much counterplay...


also like the author says in the intro you can reach the Schev, by 2.e6 or 2.d6 there for making it harder for your Opp. to prepare an Anti-Siclian line against you!

  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #25 - 04/17/12 at 04:14:53
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I play both ...e5 and ...e6 against the English Attack via the Najdorf, so it is not much additional to add in that variation, but there leaves the question of the Keres Attack or 6. Bg5. Most who prepare the Open Sicilian do not expect the Scheveningen move-order, and if they play the Keres Attack, are usually not as sufficiently prepared for it unless they prepare before the game after having known the opponent to play it. I know because I played the Open Sicilian against a 2350 who usually plays Najdorf but played the Scheveningen against me, probably as a surprise. I played  the Keres Attack and had a lost position within 25 moves since I forgot all of the theory there.
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #24 - 04/17/12 at 03:23:45
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Actually I purchased the book today so I am awaiting it. I saw the excerpt and I thought it would also be good for my rating range (2250-2300), and I was contemplating using both the Najdorf and Scheveningen depending on opponent, for example if my opponent is heavily knowledgeable about the 6. Bg5 line and I do not have much or any time to prepare, I would rather use the Scheveningen.
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #23 - 04/16/12 at 03:09:59
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Which lines are with ...a6 and which are without?
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #22 - 04/13/12 at 08:24:15
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Still waiting for my copy to show up in the mail...If anyone has the book, how is the coverage of on the English Attack?

Cool
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #21 - 04/07/12 at 19:11:44
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kylemeister wrote on 04/07/12 at 03:43:42:
D'Costa indeed follows the traditional recipe of meeting 6. Bg5 with 6...Be7, e.g. 7. f4 h6 8. Bh4 Nxe4.  I'm a bit surprised that he apparently doesn't mention 8. Bxf6 Bxf6 9. Ndb5, which seems suspect but was once favorably looked upon in a monograph by Robert Huebner.


Thank you - so where did the Najdorf transposition come from?

It has always been thought that one of the advantages of the Scheveningen move order is that (compared to the Classical or the Najdorf)  it renders 6 Bg5 theoretically harmless. Yet 6 Bg5 is so often encountered at lower levels and in blitz and rapid chess  that it is well worth studying, since otherwise as Black one might not be able to find the right responses over the board, or might consume too much time in doing so.

It's also somewhat irritating that it's not as if we are talking about a clear black advantage in every line after 6 Bg5 (which according to Kasparov and Nikitin is "fully viable), just easier equalization in the case of White's supposedly best continuation; which is possibly why, when given the chance to play the reputed refutation (based on ...Nxe4 ideas, e.g. 6 Bg5 e6 7 f4 h6 8 Bh4 Nxe4), some strong players with Black have played something different, keeping more play in the position.

By the way, I think it is unlikely that 6 Bg5 e6 7 f4 h6 8. Bxf6 Bxf6 9. Ndb5 will prove to be a big problem. It is admittedly more complex, but in similar lines from the Richter-Rauser Black's extra bishop tends to provide at least equal compensation if the d6-pawn drops off. What I find interesting though is that my sources differ as to how Black should continue now, from which I conclude either that there are several satisfactory continuations, or that the question is not trivial.

Overall tentative conclusions:
a) would-be Scheveningen players should do some homework on 6 Bg5, otherwise it might come as an unpleasant surprise;
b) transposition to the Rauser or the Najdorf is probably not the best way for Black to go!
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #20 - 04/07/12 at 03:46:17
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The stock rejoinder to 6.Bg5 has always been 6...Be7.

But on amazon you can see the table of contents, which generously supplies chess variations.
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #19 - 04/07/12 at 03:43:42
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D'Costa indeed follows the traditional recipe of meeting 6. Bg5 with 6...Be7, e.g. 7. f4 h6 8. Bh4 Nxe4.  I'm a bit surprised that he apparently doesn't mention 8. Bxf6 Bxf6 9. Ndb5, which seems suspect but was once favorably looked upon in a monograph by Robert Huebner.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #18 - 04/07/12 at 01:57:21
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parisestmagique wrote on 04/06/12 at 08:46:32:
Hi, i just saw the summary of the book, it seems to cover 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6 6.Fg5 a6 7.f4 in 6 pages, i wonder what line he recommands.


Excuse me, what summary, where? What book are you referring to? Not the new Scheveningen book, surely? Why would Black want to use the Scheveningen move order to reach a 6 Bg5 Najdorf?
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #17 - 04/06/12 at 12:40:31
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Interesting, and a must-have for me.  But I'm sorry to see that he wants 6...a6 in reply to 6.Be2, since I like the idea of delaying this move.
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #16 - 04/06/12 at 08:46:32
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Hi, i just saw the summary of the book, it seems to cover 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6 6.Fg5 a6 7.f4 in 6 pages, i wonder what line he recommands.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #15 - 04/06/12 at 07:34:33
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I am 2250 FIDE and have been playing the Najdorf since 2004 or so, but I am interested in this book. If anyone has it, how is it for 2200+?
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #14 - 04/06/12 at 05:40:47
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Thanks for the confirmation, waiting for my book to be delivered. Cool
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #13 - 04/06/12 at 05:35:48
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He did use that game, prominently.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #12 - 04/06/12 at 05:34:18
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Looking at the table of contents the Keres Attack line is
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. g4 h6 7. h4 Nc6 8. Rg1 h5

 
9. gxh5 Nxh5 10. Bg5 Nf6

11. Qd2
11. Be2
11. Rg3

He mentions Chesspub under sources I wonder if he will use th game

Fier, Alexandre Santos (2644) Ponomariov, Ruslan (2741)
Event: LIII TCh-ESP CECLUB Gp2
Site: Montcada ESP Round: 2 Date: 09/17/2009 ECO: B81

Score: ˝-˝


1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. g4 h6 7. h4 Nc6 8. Rg1 h5 9. gxh5 Nxh5 10. Bg5 Nf6 11. Rg3 a6 12. Nxc6 bxc6 13. Qf3 Qa5 as given in an update here on ChessPub.

You can see most of the chapters and table of contents (variations)

@
http://www.amazon.com/The-Sicilian-Scheveningen-Move/dp/1857446909/ref=sr_1_2?ie... Cool
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #11 - 04/02/12 at 03:52:57
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$US 39.75 on Amazon. Good luck with that.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #10 - 04/02/12 at 01:42:51
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MartinC wrote on 04/01/12 at 17:57:25:
Sure Smiley Think I was mainly reacting to the way the introduction stresses it as a low theory/understanding based variation.

That's an 'interesting' way to describe the 6 Be2 a6 stuff.....


Fully agree with that.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #9 - 04/01/12 at 22:55:19
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So, will someone say if the author has "solved" the Keres issue?
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #8 - 04/01/12 at 17:57:25
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Sure Smiley Think I was mainly reacting to the way the introduction stresses it as a low theory/understanding based variation.

That's an 'interesting' way to describe the 6 Be2 a6 stuff.....
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move book
Reply #7 - 04/01/12 at 16:23:50
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Two reasons perhaps --

1) avoids the Bg5 and Bc4 Najdorf

2) let's you play 2..e6, avoiding certain antis

In practice, the choice basically comes down to whether you want to allow the Bg5 Najdorf or the Keres Attack.

The so-called "modern" lines are, as you note, already covered and not to everyone's taste.  Pritchett based his repertoire on 9..Bd7, which works well against 10.Qe1 but not so well against 10.Nb3.  In some instances, Black ends up a tempo down on the classical lines.  If you want to play without ..a6, then 9..e5 equalizes.  But its a different kind of game and hard to win as Black.

  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #6 - 04/01/12 at 11:25:16
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272 more than enough space a priori. 

Emms did a very good a6 Nardojf/Schevy repitoire book in about 190. Even the GM repitoire book actually only uses about 230 pages on main line a6 Schevy style stuff. (including the 6 Bg5 Nardojf.).

Its a very different approach to those books of course, but still.

If I had to wonder I'd want to know why go into the Scheveningen this way and then a6 against everything.  Much easier to meet 6 Be2 without it in, especially if aiming for low theory/thematic play. Suppose that their Pritchett book covered those lines though.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #5 - 04/01/12 at 09:43:03
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A book on the Caro starts at move 1; on the Slav, at move 2; on the Lopez, at move 3; and on the Scheveningen, at move 5. The earlier you start the more ground there is to cover, so it is reasonable to expect those books to be longer for a similar depth of coverage.

Additionally, the Scheveningen book is printed on different (smoother) paper compared to the Caro MBM, and this may account for the former looking slim for 270 pages (I had the same initial reaction). For comparison, QC's GM Rep book on the Caro is slightly thicker than Scheveningen MBM but has fewer pages.

Regarding coverage, I haven't had time to go into the detail yet, but on a first read it looks pretty good to me. Given Lorin's choice of 6...a6 against 6.Be3, 6.Be2 and 6.f4 there is the potential for substantial overlap with Ftacnik's GM Rep book on the Najdorf, which Lorin does not refer to in his bibliography (although he must have studied it) - the objectives of the GM Rep and MBM series are quite different so I suppose this is to be expected to some extent.
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #4 - 03/30/12 at 11:40:31
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"Never mind the quality, feel the width!"

SSMBM arrived this morning and my initial reaction was what a rip-off! The previous titles in this series that I bought were on the Caro 432 pages, The Spanish 318 pages and the Slav 416 pages. The Scheveningen weighs in at only 272 pages and looks (and feels) even thinner!

Let`s hope the content makes up for it but on a quick perusal I am doubtful...
  
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #3 - 03/26/12 at 08:26:35
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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #2 - 03/09/12 at 04:47:52
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kylemeister wrote on 03/08/12 at 23:56:01:
Those possibilities are of course not exhaustive, but I believe it is in fact the Nd7-b6 approach.



Thanks! Cool
  

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Re: Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
Reply #1 - 03/08/12 at 23:56:01
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Those possibilities are of course not exhaustive, but I believe it is in fact the Nd7-b6 approach.
  
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Sicilian Scheveningen move by move boook
03/08/12 at 23:21:19
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Anyone know what the set-up against the English attack will be in this new coming book? Cool

Lines with an early b4 like in GM6, or lines with Nd7-b6?
like the lines in Play the Najdorf Schev style?
  

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