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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C01: French on side roads with 3.Bd3... (Read 4430 times)
Caissafan
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Re: C01: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #12 - 05/06/12 at 14:02:36
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That was a pretty lively discussion. I wish to thank all guys for their interest!
And indeed: I made a decision and chose 3.Nd2... now for my new French battle.  Smiley

Thank you.

  

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Re: C01: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #11 - 05/05/12 at 21:37:08
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I play the setup 1. b3/2.Bb2/3.c3/4.Na3/5.Qc2/6.0-0-0/7.f3/8.g4/9.h4/10.h5 in blitz and 1-minute frequently and somehow do well against titled players as well, but I would not play it in a long tournament game. And definitely not a correspondence game...
  

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Re: C01: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #10 - 05/05/12 at 15:45:46
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just using the PGN-tool:



I know a FM who nearly exclusively plays 3.Bd3 with good practical results  - but thats OTB; the question here was about corr. chess and I really thinks it's not enough for a theoretical opening advantage.
  
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Re: C01: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #9 - 05/05/12 at 12:53:24
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I can't say that I'd trust SOS articles for corr play (or even OTB), though sometimes they brought up an interesting idea or two - but lately they seem to be out of good ideas...

After 3.Bd3 I don't see what's wrong with the typical approach in the Classical French, i.e 3...Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 with the usual c5, Qb6, f6 coming up. Black has excellent stats in the few games played, and Black in those games is most often played by titled players of at least 24-2500. Sure, the White side is only around 22-2300, but if white really has a clear advantage from the opening they would probably do better than they do...

Maybe White can claim he's achieved the set up he wanted - but hey, Black can say the same.
  
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Caissafan
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Re: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #8 - 05/05/12 at 12:16:55
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Matemax wrote on 05/05/12 at 12:01:06:
Caissafan wrote on 05/05/12 at 11:42:56:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/04/12 at 23:54:37:
I think you should simply play a main line such as 3. Nc3 or 3. Nd2. Those two lines already have enough chances to play to win.


Well, I'm referring to a recommendation found in SOS #3, S. 71 ff. And: one should always try to guide the opponent into unknown territory, better tactics in CC, too?!

There is simply no unknown SOS territory in corr. chess. But I think we would all be interested seeing you trying your line and then post the game here. I predict a hard fight for a draw with White!


You could be right. Well, here we go:

[Event "60 years BdF Open final"]
[Site "BdF"]
[Date "2011.01.30"]
[White "Belka, Wieland"]
[Black "Schreiber, Kurt"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2474"]
[WhiteElo "2443"]
[ECO "C00"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Bd3 dxe4 4. Bxe4 Nf6 5. Bf3 {... SOS #3, S. 74: "Dies ist die Idee hinter 3.Bd3..., nun muß die Entwicklung des schwarzfeldrigen Läufers zurückgestellt werden. Die weißen Springer kommen trefflich auf e2 und c3
unter. Die weiße Idee ist, einfach sich zu entwickeln." -- Aber Dufeks alleiniger Favorit ist 5.Bd3... ?!}  (5. Bd3 c5 6. dxc5 Bxc5 7. Nf3 Nc6 8. O-O Qc7 9. Nc3 Bd7 10. Bg5 O-O-O {... und Ende aller Dufek-Empfehlungen} ) 5... c5
{... Mark Bluvshtein, S. 74: "Dies ist die Hauptvariante."}  (5... Be7 {... Mark Bluvshtein, S. 74: "Schwarz trifft eine sehr einfache Entscheidung, um mit der Entwicklung mitzuhalten."}  6. Ne2 O-O 7. O-O c5 8. dxc5 Bxc5 9. Qxd8 Rxd8 10. Nbc3 Nc6 11. Bf4 Bd7 12. Rad1 Be8 13. a3) 6. Ne2 Nc6 (6... Be7 {... Dufeks Favorit}  7. O-O O-O 8. dxc5) 7. Be3 cxd4 (7... Qb6 8. Nbc3 Qxb2 (8... cxd4 9. Nxd4 Bc5 10. Bxc6+ bxc6 11. O-O ) 9. dxc5) (7... e5 {... Mark Bluvshtein, S. 74: "Dies ist eine sehr kritische Variante. Die Idee besteht darin, den Vorteil zu nutzen, daß der weiße Läufer kein einziges Feld hat. Zudem gibt es die Hoffnung, die Damen zu tauschen, wodurch der weiße König auf dem Feld d1 landet."}  8. Bxc6+ bxc6 9. c3 (9. dxe5 {... Bluvshtein}  9... Qxd1+ 10. Kxd1 Ng4 11. Nd2 Be7 (11... Nxe5) (11... Nxe3+) 12. Ne4 O-O 13. Ke1 Nxe5 14. Bxc5 Re8 15. Bxe7 Rxe7 16. f3 Bf5) (9. dxc5 {... Bluvshtein}  9... Qxd1+ 10. Kxd1 Ng4 ) 9... cxd4 10. cxd4 exd4 (10... Ng4 11. Nbc3 Nxe3 12. fxe3 Qg5 13. O-O Bd6 14. Kh1 O-O 15. d5 Bb7 16. e4 cxd5 17. Nxd5 Rad8 18. Nec3 Bc8 19. Qa4 Bc5 20. Rad1 Rd6 21. Qc4 Bd4 22. Nb5 Rg6 23. Qc2 Rh6 24. Nxd4 exd4 25. Qc7 Be6 26. Ne7+ Kh8 27. Rxd4 Rf6 28. Rg1 Rh6 29. Rgd1 {1-0, Bluvshtein, M 2590 - Sachdev, T 2391, 73rd Tata Steel GMC, 2011} )11. Qxd4 Qxd4 12. Nxd4 Be7 13. Nc3 O-O 14. O-O {... Mark Bluvshtein, S. 75: "Ausgeglichen. Schwarz hat zwei Läufer, aber eine Schwäche auf c6."}  14... c5 15. Nde2 Bd7 16. Nf4 Bc6 17. Nd3 Rfc8 18. Rfd1 Ne4 19. Nxe4 Bxe4 20. Rac1 Bd5 21. b3 a5 22. Nxc5) 8. Nxd4 Ne5 (8... Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Qa5+ (9... Qxd4 10. Bxd4 { } {... Bluvshtein, S. 76: "Diese Überführung in eine vereinfachte Stellung hilft Weiß. Es gibt keinen offensichtlichen Weg, wie der weißfeldrige Läufer auf c8 rauskommen soll. Nachdem Weiß Nc3... spielt und lang rochiert, ist klar, daß Weiß einen Vorteil hat."} )10. Nc3 e5 11. Qc4 Be6 12. Bc6+ 12... Nd7 13. Bd5 Bxd5 14. Qxd5 Qxd5 15. Nxd5 Rc8 16. O-O-O {... Bluvshtein, S. 76:
"... und Weiß stand etwas bequemer in diesem Endspiel und gewann in Bluvshtein - Gorlin, 2002."} ) 9. O-O {... Bluvshtein, S. 76: "Der weiße Plan ist, mittels seines Entwicklungsvorsprunges um besseres Spiel zu kämpfen." -- Einer der beiden IDeA-Favoriten...}  9... Be7 {... befördert die eigene Entwicklung, so wohl etwas besser als Bluvshteins 9...Nxf3+ ?! -- Und raus aus Bluvshteins Analysen, und keinerlei Referenzpartien - vertiefende Analysen sind erforderlich!}  (9... a6 10. Nc3 Bd6 11. Qe2 Qc7 12. g3 Nxf3+ 13. Qxf3 O-O 14. Rad1 Bd7 15. Rd3 Rad8 16. Bg5 Be7 17. Re1 Bc8 18. a3 Rfe8 19. Bf4 Qb6 20. Na4 Qa5 21. Nc3 Bf8 22. b4 Qxa3 23. Bg5 Qxb4 24. Rb1 Qc4 25. Bxf6 gxf6 26. Ne4 f5 27. Nf6+ Kg7 28. Nxe8+ Rxe8 29. g4 Kh8 30. Re1 Be7 31. gxf5 Rg8+ 32. Kf1 e5 33. Rxe5 Bf6 34. Re4 b5 35. Rg4 Rxg4 36. Qxg4 Bxd4 37. Qxd4+ Qxd4 38. Rxd4
Bxf5 39. Ke2 Bxc2 40. Kd2 Bb3 41. Rd8+ Kg7 42. Ra8 Kg6 43. Rxa6+ Kg5 44. Rc6 Bc4 45. Rc5+ Kg6 46. f4 h6 47. h4 Bf1 48. Ke3 Bc4 49. h5+ Kg7 50. f5 Kf6 51. Kf4 Be2 52. Rc6+ Kg7 53. f6+ Kh7 54. Rc5 b4 55. Ke3 Bg4 56. Kd2 b3 57. Kc3 Bd1 58. Kb2 Kg8 59. Rd5 Bf3 60. Rb5 Bd1 61. Kc1 Bc2 62. Rb8+ Kh7 63. Kd2 Bf5 64. Rxb3 Bg4 65. Rb5 Kg8 66. Ke3 Kh7 67. Re5 Bd1 68. Kd4 Bg4 69. Kd5 Bd1 70. Kd6 Bf3 71. Ke7 Kg8 72. Rb5 {1-0, Gerola, Giorgio 2473 - Volovici, Daniel 2417, WCCC31SF06(WS), 2007} )(9... Nxf3+ 10. Qxf3 e5 (10... Be7 11. Rd1 { } {... Bluvshtein} )11. Nb5 a6 12. Rd1 Bd7 13. Nd6+ Bxd6 14. Rxd6 Qc7 15. Rxf6 gxf6 16. Qxf6 Rg8 17. Bg5 Bc6 18. Nc3 {... Bluvshtein, S. 76: "Schwarz wird völlig dominiert."}  18... h6 19. Qxh6 b5 20. Rd1 Rb8 21. Qf6 Kf8 22. Bh6+ Ke8 23. Nd5 Rxg2+ 24. Kf1) 10. Qe2 (10. Nc3 O-O 11. Qe2) 10... O-O 11. Nc3 Qa5 12. Rfd1 a6 13. h3 Re8 14. Be4 Ng6 15. Nb3 Qc7 16. Bxg6 hxg6 17. Bd4 Nd7 18. Qf3 Rb8 19. Ba7 Ra8 20. Bd4 Rb8 21. Ba7 Ra8 22. Bd4 {... und zugleich die dritte Stellungswiederholung - ich biete Remis.}  1/2-1/2
  

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Re: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #7 - 05/05/12 at 12:01:06
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Caissafan wrote on 05/05/12 at 11:42:56:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/04/12 at 23:54:37:
I think you should simply play a main line such as 3. Nc3 or 3. Nd2. Those two lines already have enough chances to play to win.


Well, I'm referring to a recommendation found in SOS #3, S. 71 ff. And: one should always try to guide the opponent into unknown territory, better tactics in CC, too?!

There is simply no unknown SOS territory in corr. chess. But I think we would all be interested seeing you trying your line and then post the game here. I predict a hard fight for a draw with White!
  
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Re: C01: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #6 - 05/05/12 at 11:52:00
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Thank you for your reply!

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 05/05/12 at 00:23:00:
After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Bd3? Black has at least two distinct ways to gain at least equality:

3...dxe4 and 3...c5. 3...c5 is a winning attempt by Black, so if you are trying to win as White, you need to find a winning attempt against 3...dxe4.


Based on own very large analysis 3...dxe4 should be favoured over 3...c5. And in a such own game my very strong opponent gained indeed totally equal play.

Quote:
Having reviewed the games, I don't see how such trash will win against a +2400 opponent. It's a reasonable surprise weapon in blitz or rapid chess, but nothing to rely on against a prepared opponent.


Well, I was referring to a recommendation found in SOS #3, S. 71 ff.

Quote:
And obviously, a +2400 rated correspondence player will not be surprised enough to lose.


An interesting idea, should be worth to discuss. At time, after decades of CC, I think it is possible to surprise an opponent in CC, too. Of course, he can search for any information but his respite is already running, and he is not familiar with unknown lines ...
« Last Edit: 05/05/12 at 15:15:09 by Caissafan »  

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Re: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #5 - 05/05/12 at 11:42:56
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/04/12 at 23:54:37:
I think you should simply play a main line such as 3. Nc3 or 3. Nd2. Those two lines already have enough chances to play to win.


Well, I'm referring to a recommendation found in SOS #3, S. 71 ff. And: one should always try to guide the opponent into unknown territory, better tactics in CC, too?!
  

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Re: C01: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #4 - 05/05/12 at 05:25:53
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/05/12 at 03:27:26:
Is it possible to surprise an opponent in correspondence chess? They have much time to contemplate their moves; I doubt they encounter time trouble Smiley.


Yes.

I'm not a correspondence player but I doubt such a sideline would work against a strong correspondence player, unless you have a couple of big novelties in key lines. I'd recommend one of 3.Nc3, 3.Nd2 and 3.e5, whichever you are most familiar with.
  

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Re: C01: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #3 - 05/05/12 at 03:27:26
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Is it possible to surprise an opponent in correspondence chess? They have much time to contemplate their moves; I doubt they encounter time trouble Smiley.
  

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Re: C01: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #2 - 05/05/12 at 00:23:00
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After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Bd3? Black has at least two distinct ways to gain at least equality:

3...dxe4 and 3...c5. 3...c5 is a winning attempt by Black, so if you are trying to win as White, you need to find a winning attempt against 3...dxe4.

Having reviewed the games, I don't see how such trash will win against a +2400 opponent. It's a reasonable surprise weapon in blitz or rapid chess, but nothing to rely on against a prepared opponent.

And obviously, a +2400 rated correspondence player will not be surprised enough to lose.
  
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Re: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
Reply #1 - 05/04/12 at 23:54:37
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I think you should simply play a main line such as 3. Nc3 or 3. Nd2. Those two lines already have enough chances to play to win.
  

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C01: French on side roads with 3.Bd3...
05/04/12 at 23:16:39
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Hi John, hello guys,

preparing a serious CC tournament and facing an 2450 ELO rated player as White I wonder if I could attempt the line e4 e6 d4 d5 Bd3 in a serious way.
Yes, my goal is to win as White player so I had to play a line with serious winning chances. What do you think?

Thank you.
Best
belka
« Last Edit: 05/05/12 at 00:19:44 by Smyslov_Fan »  

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