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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Does anyone still play the poor old Grob? (Read 15634 times)
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #27 - 04/15/13 at 10:08:25
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i wouldn't exactly call the grob "tired old". it used to drive me nuts not being able to stonewall and i probably lost my first 10 games in a row to it, and wouldn't feel at all comfortable facing it now either.

i've toyed with the idea of playing macho grobnik as white and black for plan b surprise value, especially against annoying french players & offbeat white players.

it's a really hard opening to wrap your head around if you're positionally clueless like me, and i respect the opening. i was friends with a -200 or more player that used to beat me often in it until i gave up on trying to formulate any kind of plan against it and just try to do whatever makes sense starting with pushing the d pawn followed by development.

despite being weird, it's supposed to be a pretty flexible system useable against almost anything kind of like the boring stonewall it prevents attacking the f pawn that doesn't even like to be attacked by the e pawn early
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #26 - 01/11/13 at 05:12:13
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I still play that one.
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #25 - 12/24/12 at 10:21:38
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Well, it is possilbe to play any opening and still win in blitz games! 

Many years ago someone pretended that he was Bobby Fischer and played 1 f3 2 c3 and walked with the King to c2 over f2 and e3 and d3 and crushed GM Short multiply times while chatting and makeing Fischer quates. Is turned out it was a human player that used a strong engine. He also played 1 .. f6 2 .. c6 as black on these games too and won.
« Last Edit: 12/24/12 at 16:51:24 by bragesjo »  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #24 - 12/18/12 at 22:01:17
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I play only blitz-games and I did that since 1994, also some thousands of Grob-games.
Also versus high rated players, 2300+ I always got the best result with that opening. I beated GM.s with it and I drawed comp-programs at 2.700 with the black variant.
But, my reason to play it is cause I find it very funny, still after all those years. Its not a good opening in itself but chess is not only the opening. An unusual opening can many times give advantages in other aspects, ofcourse.
I must admit that many of my wins was in worse position but with much better time  Cool
And its still very funny.
I dont play chess as a science or to try to become a master, that was never my reason. Namely I never studied any single opening carefully, coming to the Grob I read a half book and fell asleep, never read it again, too many faults in it (Wall)
Its nice to have an opening to "own" and its not many good openings to choose, you mainly have to choose among the worse openings.
Another special thing is that when you play white, after 1. g4 the game is completely even, isnt that fair.... Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #23 - 12/18/12 at 21:52:51
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Fllg wrote on 07/02/12 at 07:57:52:
The last treatment I´m aware of is in "Beating unusual chess openings" by Richard Palliser. Among others he proposes 1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 Bxg4 3.c4 dxc4!? 4.Bxb7 Nd7 as "quite a promising exchange sacrifice".

It doesn´t bode well for an opening if it´s main idea seems to fail... Wink

This is really not any "main-idea" I cant understand how anyone that knows chess can assume that.
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #22 - 11/21/12 at 07:06:56
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You make the mistake of going over a variation that has been analysed inside-out in the Grob, 1 g4 d5 2 Bg2 Bxg4, etc. Personally, I prefer the Zilbermints Grob Gambit, 1 g4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3!. This gets the opponent out of well-known lines and into uncharted territory.

I definitely am not Hadron, but I admire his courage in tackling unorthodox openings.  I play the Grob myself. In order to succeed with this opening, you must be a good tactical and positional player.

The Romford Counter Gambit can be trappy for the unwary, but I suspect chess engines might find a refutation.

After I play more tournament games with the Grob, I will post them here.
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #21 - 11/20/12 at 09:33:48
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So I did play it 'right' the time I got to then - thanks for the idea Smiley (Can't remember what I did on move 6 though.).

3 .. d4 just seemed 'right' somehow in that it makes whites development even more comically difficult than taking on c4 does. The game was a terribly one sided win, but then playing white's position here in a 1 hour/32 moves game (or similar) is a horrible task as he has to find all kinds of unatural moves just to survive.
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #20 - 11/19/12 at 22:41:20
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As the person who devised the Romford Counter-Gambit (while I was playing for Romford Chess Club all those years ago), I'm happy to tell you that the correct starting position for it is after 6.f3 d3. As I recall, Mike Basman brought out a cassette extolling the virtues of 3. ... dxc4 at around the same time, but that particular line never really appealed to me half as much.

I worked out a whole load of theory at the time, but never played a single game over the board (except in blitz games). Oh well! Just so you know, these days I play the Double Dutch.  Smiley
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #19 - 07/31/12 at 07:46:55
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Ok you did not get the joke.

When watching broadcast at chess bomb (a site that uses Houdini at evaluations) many users in chatt room claims advantages based on that small unsiginficant numbers.
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #18 - 07/30/12 at 19:49:02
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What the hell can a computer say in this kind of position ?

And is your technique up to bridging that + to - gap of 0.09 ?
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #17 - 07/30/12 at 17:35:42
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A smalll clarification, the exchange sac line I entered was  dxc4 and not d4!

I have never look at d4  but as a not that serios joke (computer dont understands a position of that few moves, especailly with material inbalance) I made a 1 minut quick compare of the lines in Houdini. d4 seems go give black good play for the exchange to (+.0.09) while dxc4 gives -0.09.
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #16 - 07/30/12 at 12:08:02
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On topic : yes, first move into a fresh correspondence tournament this very morning. I like that kind of present ! Wink
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #15 - 07/09/12 at 06:17:56
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Bibs wrote on 07/09/12 at 04:47:25:
Unfortunate that Schiller/Benjamin appears to be the single original source. You note that others cite (note the spelling) that. Schiller likely consistently the worst chess writer. Critics may argue whether he is lazy or hapless, but that need not detain us here. This collaboration with Benjamin a worthy contender for Worst Ten lists.
Doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Worth noting by the way that Basman was a very strong player at one point. Who knew the rules he was breaking. Most who play this stuff don't. Avoid.

Well Bibs, at least something you and I can agree upon. I have also had the same opinion about Schiller, most of his works and the tome in questions so I couldn't agree with you more. Whether or not the tome in question and the name Romford Counter gambit hold up to scrutiny is another good point. As I said, on the first point, I agree and the second, I don't know. I would sooner trust the writing of John Watson and Hugh Myers over Schiller any day but I guess they had a chance to (re)name the gambit in question and did not.
As for your comments about Basman about being a very strong player at one point etc are also valid to a point. If you ever get to see some of his rare recent games, I think he is still quite strong as a (semi retired) player and indeed you are right about him having a deep understanding of his opening concept. As for most those who play this stuff don't....maybe yes, maybe no....but speaking from experience, part of the fun of chess is perhaps giving it a try to try and understand something through study and practical test. The traditioanl Grob (1.g4 2.Bg2) served me well when I was younger but as I got pass the 2100 Elo stage, it didn't cut the mustard and as a consquence in line with your last bit of advice, avoid, it has been more than a few years since I have played it in games of note.
A good post Bib
Thanks
Hadron.
Smiley
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #14 - 07/09/12 at 04:47:25
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Hadron wrote on 07/08/12 at 14:18:10:
Dude, if you are going to stalk me all over the chess publishing forum at least try and not embarras yourself:
Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 11:47:48:
Why, oh why, do devotees of minor systems….

Where do you get ‘devotee’ from? Because I ask about the Grob and actually know what the Romford counter gambit is? ....Yet another stretch in a long line of stretches. The last record I have of playing the Grob was in 1999, it was a postal match.

Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 11:47:48:
……feel the need to find names for all of the seldom-played various that they study, and why in particular to they name them after obscure players? 

Study? Just because I know about does not mean I study it. One should know about such in case one gets caught out…
As for the name, if I must. The exchange sacrifice in the Grob starting with 3.c4 d4 is credited to one Nicholas Pelling of Romford in east London, England by the American’s Grandmaster Joel Benjamin and Eric Schiller in Batsford’s 1987 book Unorthodox Chess Openings (pages 76 & 77). In the following year Hugh Myers in issue 39 of his ‘Myers Opening Bulletin’ in a review of the afore mentioned Batsford book refers to it as the Romford Counter Gambit (page 18) sighting it in regards of analysis from an earlier MOB (issue 20). Then in the June 12th 1995 edition of Inside Chess (pages 29 & 30), International Master John Watson also refers to it has the Romford Counter Gambit (and on a side note, his article is actually quite good).

Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 11:47:48:

But to come to my point, what, please, is the Romford Counter Gambit?

Check the other posts or read a chess book……I don’t care which

And finally
Severino wrote on 07/08/12 at 13:21:27:
Bibs - Gambit and Hadron the same person? They both seem to be teenagers but apart from that I do not see it.

As for being Gambit, thanks for the compliment but…no….Although I do so admire his passion for chess at times even if it can be a little excessive especially in the face of the trolls and troglodytes who attempt to tear him down for it (I am getting to know how he feels) and as for being a teenager, sometime I do wish I was again …..
Hadron


Unfortunate that Schiller/Benjamin appears to be the single original source. You note that others cite (note the spelling) that.
Schiller likely consistently the worst chess writer. Critics may argue whether he is lazy or hapless, but that need not detain us here. This collaboration with Benjamin a worthy contender for Worst Ten lists.

Doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Worth noting by the way that Basman was a very strong player at one point. Who knew the rules he was breaking. Most who play this stuff don't. Avoid.
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #13 - 07/08/12 at 20:22:50
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Severino wrote on 07/08/12 at 13:21:27:
The Romford (a place name) Gambit is 1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 Bxg4 3. c4 d4, and now 4.Bxb7 Nd7 5.Bxa8 Qxa8 6.f3

An interest position, no matter what one thinks about the moves leading up to it.

Bibs - Gambit and Hadron the same person? They both seem to be teenagers but apart from that I do not see it.


No, Gambit is a much stronger player than Hadron. It is less certain whether sloughter and Hadron are the same person, but sloughter conducts himself fairly well these days, so I assume they are different.

The right move is 3...dxc4, Romford or Schlomford.  In fact, I hereby name 3... dxc4, which the record will show was first proposed.by me in this particular forum, the Schlomford Counter Gambit. I would much rather be Black. We had a discussion of this some time ago, and I believe most people agreed. I assumed it was this line that was referred to by the player who said he did well with the exchange sac. This kills the Grob, basically. Tut, I would cut off my right hand if, on move one, it ever played g2-g4.

But if anyone bothers to check, I don't think it was clear whether 3.d4 or 3...dxc4! was being discussed here, when I asked.

  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #12 - 07/08/12 at 14:18:10
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Dude, if you are going to stalk me all over the chess publishing forum at least try and not embarras yourself:
Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 11:47:48:
Why, oh why, do devotees of minor systems….

Where do you get ‘devotee’ from? Because I ask about the Grob and actually know what the Romford counter gambit is? ....Yet another stretch in a long line of stretches. The last record I have of playing the Grob was in 1999, it was a postal match.

Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 11:47:48:
……feel the need to find names for all of the seldom-played various that they study, and why in particular to they name them after obscure players? 

Study? Just because I know about does not mean I study it. One should know about such in case one gets caught out…
As for the name, if I must. The exchange sacrifice in the Grob starting with 3.c4 d4 is credited to one Nicholas Pelling of Romford in east London, England by the American’s Grandmaster Joel Benjamin and Eric Schiller in Batsford’s 1987 book Unorthodox Chess Openings (pages 76 & 77). In the following year Hugh Myers in issue 39 of his ‘Myers Opening Bulletin’ in a review of the afore mentioned Batsford book refers to it as the Romford Counter Gambit (page 18) sighting it in regards of analysis from an earlier MOB (issue 20). Then in the June 12th 1995 edition of Inside Chess (pages 29 & 30), International Master John Watson also refers to it has the Romford Counter Gambit (and on a side note, his article is actually quite good).

Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 11:47:48:

But to come to my point, what, please, is the Romford Counter Gambit?

Check the other posts or read a chess book……I don’t care which

And finally
Severino wrote on 07/08/12 at 13:21:27:
Bibs - Gambit and Hadron the same person? They both seem to be teenagers but apart from that I do not see it.

As for being Gambit, thanks for the compliment but…no….Although I do so admire his passion for chess at times even if it can be a little excessive especially in the face of the trolls and troglodytes who attempt to tear him down for it (I am getting to know how he feels) and as for being a teenager, sometime I do wish I was again …..
Hadron
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #11 - 07/08/12 at 13:21:27
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The Romford (a place name) Gambit is 1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 Bxg4 3. c4 d4, and now 4.Bxb7 Nd7 5.Bxa8 Qxa8 6.f3

An interest position, no matter what one thinks about the moves leading up to it.

Bibs - Gambit and Hadron the same person? They both seem to be teenagers but apart from that I do not see it.
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #10 - 07/08/12 at 12:07:46
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Markovich wrote on 07/08/12 at 11:47:48:
Why, oh why, do devotees of minor systems feel the need to find names for all of the seldom-played varions that they study, and why in particular to they name them after obscure players? But to come to my point, what, please, is the Romford Counter Gambit?


I rather think that Hadron/HTH is on an extended wind-up campaign in various threads.
Gambit/Hadron the same person?

  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #9 - 07/08/12 at 11:47:48
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Why, oh why, do devotees of minor systems feel the need to find names for all of the seldom-played variations that they study, and why in particular to they name them after obscure players? But to come to my point, what, please, is the Romford Counter Gambit?
« Last Edit: 07/08/12 at 20:15:51 by Markovich »  

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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #8 - 07/07/12 at 00:15:29
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I thought the Romford Counter Gambit was supposed to be better for White?
Undecided
Hadron
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #7 - 07/05/12 at 14:23:35
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I noticed this thread a few days ago and I met Grob today in a Internet blitz game and I entered the exchange sac line. While I did not followup it up perfectly I got decent compensation anyway and after a mistake by opponnet I won very easy.
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #6 - 07/02/12 at 18:00:49
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JEH wrote on 07/02/12 at 09:42:03:
But I won two tournament games where players lost to a trap of me attacking their d pawn with c4, them defending it with c6 and e6, recapturing with the c6 pawn, and losing their Bishop which had taken the Grob pawn on g4 to a Qa4 check (if I can find the exact moves, I'll post it).

  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #5 - 07/02/12 at 09:42:03
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Back in my teens, I had a season playing the Grob, after acquiring Claude Bloodgood's "The Tactical Grob". I scored quite well with it, but that was despite it, not because of it, since at the level I was playing, all sorts of opening rubbish could be played as games were so blunderful.

The oft recommended treatment was to blunt the bishop with c6 and d5. But I won two tournament games where players lost to a trap of me attacking their d pawn with c4, them defending it with c6 and e6, recapturing with the c6 pawn, and losing their Bishop which had taken the Grob pawn on g4 to a Qa4 check (if I can find the exact moves, I'll post it).

From playing with it, I thought the problem though was that g4 had weakened, in particular, the f4 and h4 squares, so if I had it played against me (which happened once), my plan was to set up to exploit them with 1. g4 e5 2. Bg2 Bc5 and then go Ng8-e7-g6. This worked a treat.

  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #4 - 07/02/12 at 09:30:05
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That's the setup that I always planned to use against the Grob with Black- if I ever faced it (which, so far, I haven't...)  Black seems to take good advantage of the kingside weaknesses created by the opening, and if White plays 2.h3 rather than 2.Bg2 (making 2...h5 less effective) then ...Nge7-g6 eyeing f4 and h4, and ...d5 follow.

Also see Andrew Martin's article covering closely-related lines (I link to page 2 of his article and it continues on page 3):
http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_bits_pieces/041001_h_t_,mt_plsh_grb2.html
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #3 - 07/02/12 at 08:10:09
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A recent 'blitz' correspondence game of mine (not rated) went like this:

I think I saw this (1. g4 e5 2. Bg2 h5!? 3. gxh5 Qg5!? 4. Bf3 Qh4!?) setup against the Grob from a rapid game played by Aronian some years ago. But now I'm not sure about it..
Anyway, it seems effective even in a correspondence 'blitz' game, though I suspect my opponent never used a computer engine in this game.  Huh
  
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #2 - 07/02/12 at 08:08:03
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Bummer......
Thanks chap
Hadron
Smiley
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
Reply #1 - 07/02/12 at 07:57:52
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The last treatment I´m aware of is in "Beating unusual chess openings" by Richard Palliser. Among others he proposes 1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 Bxg4 3.c4 dxc4!? 4.Bxb7 Nd7 as "quite a promising exchange sacrifice".

It doesn´t bode well for an opening if it´s main idea seems to fail... Wink
  
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Does anyone still play the poor old Grob?
07/02/12 at 04:35:34
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How has chess theory treated the poor old Grob in the last year or so?
Hadron
Undecided
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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