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Normal Topic C06: Universal system, 7.. f6 (Read 5149 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: C06: Universal system, 7.. f6
Reply #6 - 09/23/23 at 00:35:11
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MartinC wrote on 07/11/12 at 14:08:15:
Does anyone know if this really is just random fashion, or if there's some historical/objective reason for this baffling/serious neglect?


As far as game statistics go, White does well after 11Re1 (most often played), 11b3 and 11Nb3. I think Black is probably allright with precise moves. Here's an example:

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nf6 5. e5 Nfd7 6. c3 Nc6 7. Bd3 f6 8. exf6 Nxf6 9. O-O cxd4 10. cxd4 Bd6 11. Re1 O-O 12. Nf1 Qb6 (...Qc7 perhaps) 13. a3 Kh8!? (renews the threat on the d pawn) 14. Bc2 Bd7 15. Bg5 Rac8!? (Stockfish Novelty and better than the previously played 15...Rae8) 16. Qd3 Be8! (possible since there is no rook on e8) with a complicated position.

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« Last Edit: 09/23/23 at 11:27:22 by FreeRepublic »  
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Re: C06: Universal system, 7.. f6
Reply #5 - 09/22/23 at 21:46:58
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MartinC wrote on 07/11/12 at 22:07:59:
why isn't much more of a major line?


Good question! It seems to me that both sides can be reasonably satisfied with their chances after 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. c3 c5 6. Ngf3 Nc6 7. Bd3 cd4 8. cd4 f6 9. ef6 Nf6 10. O-O Bd6.

The same position comes about after 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nf6 5. e5 Nfd7 6. c3 Nc6 7. Bd3 f6 8. ef6 Nf6 9. O-O cd4 10. cd4 Bd6
  
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Re: C06: Universal system, 7.. f6
Reply #4 - 07/11/12 at 22:07:59
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9.. cd 10 cd Bd6 etc (10 Nxd4 in a typically detailed note) is Watson's main line and what Mosalenko has been playing.

Psakhis (and Watson really) seems to think that thats somewhere between a small white edge and equality.

That almost makes it more confusing though - if this was already known to be roughly equal back then, then why isn't much more of a major line? Its a terribly familiar pawn structure and a rather stable position with it.
  
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Re: C06: Universal system, 7.. f6
Reply #3 - 07/11/12 at 19:10:26
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7...f5!? was also another Watson's idea...according to Minev's book "New and forgotten ideas about the French"  (I use reference to this move because 8.exf6 transposes to 7..f6 line)

Another line to notice from the move order: 5.Bd3 (maybe worth to note that 5.c3 is better if you want to play Bb5 vs Guimard variation) Nc6!? 6.c3 f5 (6..f6 7.Qh5+) 7.g4!? or 7.Nh3!
  

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Re: Universal system, 7.. f6
Reply #2 - 07/11/12 at 19:06:14
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kylemeister wrote on 07/11/12 at 14:44:52:
... after 9...Bd6 ...


Without Watson's book in hands, I assume that Watson is recommending 9..Bd6 after 8.exf6 Nxf6 9.oo

I have recorded many lines from one of Psakhis's books (about French Tarrasch). Among them: 9..Bd6 10.dxc5 Bxc5 11.b4 Bd6 12.b5 Ne5 13.Nxe5 Bxe5 14.Bb2 +=

Alternatives to 9..Bd6 are mainly based on a cxd4 move by Black, generating transpositions to pawn structures of the main lines. Determining center too much early like this is not so good for Black, because at one step White can play Nb3.
  

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Re: Universal system, 7.. f6
Reply #1 - 07/11/12 at 14:44:52
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Well, Steffen Pedersen treated it in his 2005 Tarrasch book; in his main line 8. ef Nxf6 9. 0-0 he had a difference of opinion with Watson about a position arising after 9...Bd6, and thought that Black should perhaps prefer 9...cd 10. cd (transposing to 7...cd 8. cd f6 9. ef Nxf6).
  
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MartinC
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C06: Universal system, 7.. f6
07/11/12 at 14:08:15
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Something which struck me while browsing my brothers copy of Play the French 4. He gives multiple lines vs the Universal system in the Tarrasch, one of which is 7.. f6!? 
(1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nd2 Nf6 4 e5 Nfd7 5 Bd3 c5 6 c3 Nc6 7 Ngf3 f6!?).

Now, as Watson remarks, this is an entirely normal/thematic move and yet - asides from Mosalenko (who's played it and put it in the Flexible French) - it has been almost totally neglected.

Which really is odd, because the lines Watson gives do look very 'normal' and while black has lots of other decent ideas, he's not doing outright brilliantly with any of them and things like 7.. h6/a6 or even Be7 are hardly the first moves you'd think of here.

Does anyone know if this really is just random fashion, or if there's some historical/objective reason for this baffling/serious neglect?
  
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