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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Alekhine 2.Nc3 (Read 18203 times)
joe61
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #50 - 08/18/16 at 08:31:30
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1 e4 Nf6 2 Nc3 d5 3 e5 Nfd7 4 d4 e6 5 f4 c5.
  
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joe61
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #49 - 08/18/16 at 08:26:34
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If you're not worried about playing a French Advance variation then 1 e4 Nf6 2 Nc3 d5 3 e5 Nd7 4 d4 e6 5 f4 c5 is fine.

Best book I've read on Alekhine's Defense is by Nigel Davies. Alekhine's Defense, published by Everyman Chess.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #48 - 08/15/16 at 13:10:10
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Hi.

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 (rare and bad) is a non-line. This is true.
It would have been more accurate for me to write possible lines of play or something instead of just possible lines.


1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3 c6 3.d4 d6 4.f4 g6 Is going to be a bit better for white positionally with poor long term prospects for black imo. So I'm up for signing a declaration that black is a bit worse.

Black can instead go (4...Qa5) which is by far the most common move in the position after (4.f4). It's quite a special line which can be fun to play once in a while.

Have a nice day.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #47 - 08/14/16 at 17:31:25
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That sounds like an overestimation of the normalcy.  E.g. 3. d4 d5 reminds me of an old citation Tal-Campomanes (with 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 perhaps being awarded a question mark), and surely, say, 3. d4 d6 4. f4 g6 is worse for Black.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #46 - 08/14/16 at 09:21:03
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Hello.

AF wrote on 08/12/16 at 06:57:39:
After 1e4 Nf6 2 Nc3 what about 2... c6 !?
in order to play a kind of accelerated Pirc?

Probably the play will go into normal lines quite quick. Possible lines:

1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3 c6

3.e5 Nd5 Is a definite possibility.

3.d4 g6 Will become a Pirc when black plays d6 (of course with this move order white can strike immediately with 4.e5 if he wants and c6 may not be optimal if the game goes into a Pirc).

3.d4 d6 Is usually called the Czech or Pribyl variation though here it is entirely plausible for black to go for g6 in the near future, almost regardless of what white plays. When g6 is played the game can be regarded as having gone into a Pirc.

3.d4 d5 Is a Caro Kann.

3.d4 b5?! 4.e5 looks strong.

3.Nf3 d6 Commits white to a Nf3 system if black later goes into the Pirc with g6.

3.Nf3 d5 Is a Caro Kann.

So yea there are chances to go into the Pirc (along with some other openings) which you can try and aim for with 2...c6 if you don't like the other lines after 1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3.

Have a nice day.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #45 - 08/14/16 at 05:55:01
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I doubt that I've ever seen 1. e4 Nf6 2. Nc3 c6 in my life, but I notice that a couple of old-school books (ECO and NCO) gave 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. Nc3 c6 as slightly better for White, albeit giving different lines.
  
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AF
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #44 - 08/14/16 at 03:04:57
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Does this line 1e4 Nf6 2 Nc3 c6 !? have a name?
What do opening books say about it ?
  
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RdC
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #43 - 08/12/16 at 11:30:20
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AF wrote on 08/12/16 at 06:57:39:
After 1e4 Nf6 2 Nc3 what about 2... c6 !?
in order to play a kind of accelerated Pirc?



How do you meet 3. e5 though?

The reply 3. .. Nd5 is most popular and there are a fair few examples, given that the position also arises from the move order 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. Nc3 c6 .

After 4. Nxd5 cxd5, the resulting position is far more like an Alekhine than a Pirc.
  
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AF
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #42 - 08/12/16 at 06:57:39
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After 1e4 Nf6 2 Nc3 what about 2... c6 !?
in order to play a kind of accelerated Pirc?
  
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Keano
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #41 - 05/16/16 at 16:45:35
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And 3.e5 Nfd7! with the lines Markovich pointed out.
  
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #40 - 04/04/16 at 23:02:06
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2...d5 for me
  
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RoleyPoley
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #39 - 12/05/15 at 01:51:02
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DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 12/04/15 at 23:10:05:
I am not sure if you thought about this, but I play the Pirc and rarely the Alekhin. But if in case 2. Sc3, you can always transpose to the Pirc with 2...d6, if you are willing to play the Pirc.

If you play 2. Sc3 you have to be able to transpose to a lod of other openings. The Four Pawns Attack I played when I played 1. e4 and I say it is very dangerous for White. If you F up just a little, your home position can collapse like a pack of cards. Or at least this happened to me a lot. I have very few wins against the Alekhin  Cheesy

As a White player, if I played 1. e4 and prepared 2. Sc3 against an Alekhin player and she played 2...d6, I would be a quite annoyed, having to now play against the Pirc suddenly. Drink for thought.


Funny enough i had thought about giving the pirc a spin. I really like Vigus's books on the opening and having played the Dragon, KI and Benoni when i was at uni 20 years ago, i think it might be the sort of thing i would like to play.

My only concern with the pirc is that there are so many good lines for white, it might require a lot more work than a gradual transition to lines in the vienna or four knights. Reading a lot of the threads in the pirc section, a lot of the established Pirc players seem to see it as much a curse as a blessing, although i note that you have a good record with it.

If i switch to the pirc, i am not sure it would be of much benefit playing through an Alekhine/ 2nc3 move order as i would think that it would allow white to play their usual line against the pirc if they have one, or just make it up as they go along with a classical which is probably easier for them than trying to play an open game or french position that they dont have too much familiarity with (i am much weaker than you, so my opponents usually have problems when move ordered!).

  

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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #38 - 12/04/15 at 23:10:05
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I am not sure if you thought about this, but I play the Pirc and rarely the Alekhin. But if in case 2. Sc3, you can always transpose to the Pirc with 2...d6, if you are willing to play the Pirc.

If you play 2. Sc3 you have to be able to transpose to a lod of other openings. The Four Pawns Attack I played when I played 1. e4 and I say it is very dangerous for White. If you F up just a little, your home position can collapse like a pack of cards. Or at least this happened to me a lot. I have very few wins against the Alekhin  Cheesy

As a White player, if I played 1. e4 and prepared 2. Sc3 against an Alekhin player and she played 2...d6, I would be a quite annoyed, having to now play against the Pirc suddenly. Drink for thought.
  
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #37 - 12/04/15 at 21:43:37
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Thanks Tauromachie
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Tauromachie
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Re: Alekhine 2.Nc3
Reply #36 - 12/04/15 at 20:21:25
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There are quite a few lines one should know at least in some detail after 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6

A) 3.d4 exd4 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Qe3 and now either 5..Be7!? or the Mainline 5..Bb4

B) 3.g3 can be met by the straightforward 3..d5 or the slower 3..Nc6 (followed  by Bc5 and a possibly knight Jump to d4)

C) 3.d3 is some kind of a reversed philidor.. just normal development should be decent


D) 3.Bc4 and now 3..Nxe4 4.Qh5 Nd6 or the pragmatic 3..Nc6 4.d3 Na5

E) 3.f4 d5 4.fxe5 (4.exd5!?) Nxe4 and here you have to explore 5.d3, 5.Qf3 and the main move 5.Nf3 Be7 / Bc5

F) 3.Nf3 Nc6 (3..Bb4 is an alternative)

F1) 4.Nxe5 / 4.a3!? / 4.Bc4 Nxe4 ( a usefull trick to know)

F2) 4.d4 scotch for knights, enough good lines to chose against

F3) 4.Bb5 Nd4/Bb4/Bd6/Bc5

Just as a starting point.

  
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