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Normal Topic McShane-Anand - London Chess Classics (Read 5123 times)
JonathanB
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Re: McShane-Anand - London Chess Classics
Reply #5 - 12/15/12 at 09:27:53
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Poghosyan wrote on 12/14/12 at 09:21:47:
However one should take into account that in Kramnik-Aronian there was no increment at all and Aronian did not have any reasonable time to think over his moves.


Yes, I take your point.  Although the flipside of the increment is that it's possible that the playing session for Anand-McShane was much longer than Kramnik-Aronian.  I'm a very similar age to Vishy and I can tell you that I'm considerably more tired at the end of a game of chess now than I was ten or even five years ago.

I think we're disagreeing more on 'degree' than substance.  I certainly accept that it was noteworthy that the World Champ didn't play the ending correctly.  What I'm saying that when you consider the playing conditions these days - and the fact that even the top players go wrong in this ending it's not as extremely surprising as your original post suggested.

E.g. the Grischuk - Eljanov game you cite in your attachment the defender had gone wrong in an extremely similar way to Anand-McShane just before your snippet starts and Aronian missed chances to take the h-pawn just before he started 'playing correctly'.

Mind you, if you were to say that these guys might be extremely strong GMs but they're not the World Championship, I would have to accept that was a reasonable point too.

I guess I agree with JC's last sentence.
  

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IMJohnCox
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Re: McShane-Anand - London Chess Classics
Reply #4 - 12/15/12 at 00:22:52
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It was pretty strange; I guess all you can say is that these things are harder at move 90. Like Pogohosyan says, everyone knows you keep the rook at a8/a7/a6 ready to give checks from either direction - this is the whole reason Black can't win this endgame after all - and by the same token what is wrong with Ra1? must be precisely that it doesn't allow R to the g-file check, so ....Kg4 is the first move that comes to mind. You can always understand overlooking stuff, but moves that are unnatural and don't follow the well-known ways of playing positions are stranger. I guess it's just not an easy game.
  
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Poghosyan
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Re: McShane-Anand - London Chess Classics
Reply #3 - 12/14/12 at 09:21:47
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My words may sound a little harsh but it is a matter of appreciation. There can be of course no unified standard for assessing the moves in the endgame. On the other hand there are positions which belong to the category of so called “precise positions” which every good player must know. There are many positions where the knowledge of the defence principles is fairly enough to defend the position. The position after 89…Re7 in Anand-McShane is a standard one and the underling principle of defence is rather simple – keeping the rook in the southwest corner in order to be able to give checks both from the side and behind. Anand`s move 90.Ra1? violated that principle and allowed 90…Kg4. It is really hard to understand why Anand made first the move 90.Ra1? and only after 90…Re5? he resorted to the correct defensive plan. Did he know the right plan and 90.Ra1? was only lapsus manus? Of course, if one is in a severe time-trouble then the defence is much harder. I do not know exactly how much time Anand had before the move 90.Ra1? but he had in any case at least 30 seconds increment time. In Kramnik-Aronian (Wijk aan Zee 2008) Aronian knew the right defence principle and he applied it for the time being (see the moves 81-99). However one should take into account that in Kramnik-Aronian there was no increment at all and Aronian did not have any reasonable time to think over his moves.
  

Kramnik-Aronian.pgn ( 2 KB | Downloads )
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JonathanB
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Re: McShane-Anand - London Chess Classics
Reply #2 - 12/12/12 at 18:45:14
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Poghosyan wrote on 12/09/12 at 15:27:36:
Anand`s move 90.Ra1? is really incomprehensible ...
It is equally amazing that McShane missed the move 90…Kg4! 


Is it really so amazing/incomprehensible?  It's not the only example of top level players going wrong in this ending in recent years.  I suspect Ribli's clock situation was rather different to McShane/Anand's (or, say Aronian in Kramnik-Aronian from Wijk a few years back).


PS: I know the principle of the defender keeping the rook in the far corner in these kind of positions, but still, I'm think the words chosen are a little harsh.
  

www.streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.com  "I don't call you f**k face" - GM Nigel Short.
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Poghosyan
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Re: McShane-Anand - London Chess Classics
Reply #1 - 12/09/12 at 15:27:36
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The exact evaluation of the position after 89…Re7 has been known at least since 1939 when I. Mayzelis published his important analyses on rook and two isolated pawns (f- and h) against rook (“Shakhmaty v SSSR", n. 9-1939, p. 309-315. See D. IX, p. 313). 
Anand`s move 90.Ra1? is really incomprehensible. Anand had (see the D. 1 with rev. col.) 2 saving moves which are well known in the theory – 3…Rb1 or 3…Ra3 (see attachment). In exactly the same position Ribli played against Karpov (Budapest 1973) 3…Ra3 and made an easy draw after 4.Re2 Ra3 5.Re8 Ra1 6.Kf7 Kxh6 7.f6 Ra7+ 8.Re7 Ra8.

It is equally amazing that McShane missed the move 90…Kg4! after which Anand would not be in condition to prevent the king from being cut off on the back rank. 
  

Anand-McShane.pgn ( 0 KB | Downloads )
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McShane-Anand - London Chess Classics
12/08/12 at 07:10:45
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I would like to say thanks, pogosyan, for posting all the endgame analysis. I am sorry I haven't checked all of it yet, but I will later on.

The game McShane-Anand could have ended in a disaster for the WC, but both players missed a win in the 90th move. Did anyone of you catch this? Pogosyan, have you analysed this position or a similar one before and seen the winning method?
  
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