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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie (Read 17150 times)
ArKheiN
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #34 - 12/19/13 at 22:02:19
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To gewgaw, 3..cxd4 is not forced, but after 3..Bg7 there is 4.dxc5, 4.d5, or even 4.c4 where I can't play my Gurgenidze...
  
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Fllg
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #33 - 12/19/13 at 18:50:35
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After 3...Bg7 4.dxc5 Qa5+ 5.c3 Qxc5 6.Be3 Qc7 7.Na3! is at least a bit better for White imho. You also have to reckon with 4.d5 with a Benoni structure which perhaps is not to everybodys liking who wants to play the accelerated Dragon.
  
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gewgaw
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #32 - 12/19/13 at 15:48:39
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Is 3.d4 cd4 forced? Why not 3. ...Bg7?
  

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Swiss_Dragon
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #31 - 12/19/13 at 13:21:32
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ArKheiN wrote on 12/19/13 at 10:44:46:
- and your line 8..Qa5 9.Nc3 Bg7 which I have analysed. There is many lines here where Black has a very dynamical play here but there is a line where White just sacrifice the exchange and Black have many problems. Here is the line:
8..Qa5 9.Nc3 Bg7 10.0-0 (10.a3 should transpose as well) 0-0 11.a3! d5 12.exd6 Bf5 13.axb4! Qxb4 14.Qh4 with a strong initiative/attack for White.

What do you think about that SwissDragon?

Oops. I missed that exchange sacrifice. Yes, it looks rather unpleasent for Black. So better look at 7...Nb6.
  
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ArKheiN
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #30 - 12/19/13 at 10:44:46
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To Swiss Dragon:

I will have a look at 7..Nb6!? with your idea.

I never liked 7..Nc7.

My favourite move has always been 7..Nb4 and then:

8.Bb5! where Black has some choices:

- 8..Qa5 9.Nc3 d5 has been considered as refuted later since Silman's and Donaldson's Book.

-8..Bg7 without Qa5, which is too passive,

-8..a6 (it's the move I always had in mind in the case where someone plays this line against me) which is quite interesting but here too I don't see a "full" equalization, it's at least "+/=".

- and your line 8..Qa5 9.Nc3 Bg7 which I have analysed. There is many lines here where Black has a very dynamical play here but there is a line where White just sacrifice the exchange and Black have many problems. Here is the line:
8..Qa5 9.Nc3 Bg7 10.0-0 (10.a3 should transpose as well) 0-0 11.a3! d5 12.exd6 Bf5 13.axb4! Qxa1 14.Qh4 with a strong initiative/attack for White.

What do you think about that SwissDragon?
« Last Edit: 12/19/13 at 22:00:06 by ArKheiN »  
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Swiss_Dragon
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #29 - 12/19/13 at 08:12:53
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ArKheiN wrote on 12/19/13 at 00:24:16:
Swiss Dragon, despite that, I am always afraid that someone plays to me 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4! with good knowledge (which hasn't arised against me yet). I think this is the real test for Black. 4..Nf6 5.Qa4 Nc6 6.e5 (6.Nc3 is quite good too) Ne5 7.Qe4 and now do you really think Black can fully equalize? I think not.

You are right, 4.Qxd4! should be listed as a critical test for Black. As you say it is played very rarely. I think Black can get close to equality after 5.Qa4 Nc6 6.e5 Ne5 7.Qe4 Nb6! 8.Nc3 Bg7 9.Bf4 d5!
Also 7...Ndb4!? 8.Bb5 Qa5 9.Bc3 Bg7! is interesting.
  
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ArKheiN
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #28 - 12/19/13 at 00:24:16
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I love the accelerated dragon and the Gurgenidze and played it many time at 2000 to GM level with fair results, but I don't use the accelerated dragon move order because of the Rossolimo which I hate very much (mostly the quick Bxc6 against g6). So I have played it a lot with the hyper accelerated move order, and I have quite good results against 3.c3, 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 or other.

Swiss Dragon, despite that, I am always afraid that someone plays to me 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4! with good knowledge (which hasn't arised against me yet). I think this is the real test for Black. 4..Nf6 5.Qa4 Nc6 6.e5 (6.Nc3 is quite good too) Ne5 7.Qe4 and now do you really think Black can fully equalize? I think not.
  
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Swiss_Dragon
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #27 - 12/18/13 at 10:30:40
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Hi all!

To add my 50 cent: I personally do like to play the (hyper-)accelerated dragon with 2...g6. The main advantages are:
1) White doesn't have annoying 3.Bb5 systems like against 2...d6 and 2...Nc6. Also the move c3 will always be met by d7-d5 in one go. I think Black is perfectly fine in the Alapin line with 2...g6.
2) White doesn't have the 9.0-0-0 and 9.g4 lines like against the normal dragon.

So White basically has two ways to fight for an advantage:
A) The Bc4-line against the dragon, which is what probably everyone of us likes to play with Black.
B) The Maroczy bind. Here I like the Gurgenidze system comined with early pushing the a-pawn a7-a5, a5-a4. In this line Black has more counter-chances than in most other Maroczy-lines. As an illustration see the following game.

  
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Othy
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #26 - 12/18/13 at 00:50:09
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That's great aggressive king play! Thanks for sharing.

I don't particularly care for 8.h3 for White, and might consider venturing something more like 8.Nfd2.



Altogether, though, against 2...g6, I might prefer a transposition to the Alapin with 3.c3, which I think is better for White against early fianchetto setups. But I just have Sveshnikov's work to go by for my conclusions there.
  
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chandrashekharkoravi
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #25 - 12/17/13 at 17:06:31
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I think that this is a instructive game for black against maroczy bind
  
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #24 - 12/17/13 at 13:17:47
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I can also add that black can also play Qa5 vs Bc4 that sets up a trap, white is forced to castle short or lose a pawn for no compensation.

However, blacks positon in not that easy, since white can play Nb3 and will reach a Be2 line a tempo up if black retreats to d8 with the queen. If black instead retreats to c7 (most common move in my experience) black can no longer sacrifce that exchange at c3 without first moving a queen so  black will still be a tempo down and whites gets a stronger attack than reguar Be2 line. However it is stilll not that clear whites extra tempo means an edge.
  
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Othy
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #23 - 12/17/13 at 01:49:49
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Ah, I see. Reading comprehension fail on my part.

Perhaps this reveals that subconsciously I've made my decision, since I was so consumed with the idea of the Maroczy that I failed to differentiate it from the explicit mention of Bc4. Thanks for the help, all.
  
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #22 - 12/16/13 at 18:00:47
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Concrete: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Bb3 d6 9.f3 and Black has avoided both 9.O-O-O and 9.g4 in the Dragon.
  

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MartinC
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #21 - 12/16/13 at 16:34:48
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I think its the rather simpler point that to force an accelerated dragon Yugoslav style white has to commit to playing an early Bc4.

Hard to get back to 9 o-o-o/g4 then Smiley
  
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #20 - 12/16/13 at 15:56:20
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MartinC wrote on 12/16/13 at 09:36:35:
Depends. In general I'd say that anything you know relatively well and gives you a chance to play for two results is more than good enough for normal usage.


Good point.  Grin

bragesjo wrote on 12/16/13 at 12:20:31:
If you play Bc4 yugoslav vs regular Dragon, enter the anti yugoslav lines would be praticall or else you have to learn two lines vs regular Dragon since there are players that play accelerated to avoid 9 0-0-0 but like to play vs 9 Bc4.


I used to play 9.Bc4 in the Yugoslav, but have not formally looked through its theory in many years (after some frustration with the Najdorf, I began playing 4.Qxd4, until eventually switching to a non-1.e4 repertoire). Until I get a chance to review the many significant theoretical advances I'm sure to have missed, I was intending to play 9.g4. Looking through some threads here, 9.0-0-0 has also looked interesting.

Can I ask to what transpositional trick you are referring? The only try I am familiar with is 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6, intending ...d7-d6 and entering the dragon having ruled out the Maroczy. However, my understanding is that 6.Nxc6 bxc6 7.e5 is good for White.

  
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