Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 34
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy (Read 220779 times)
tony37
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 609
Joined: 10/16/10
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #387 - 06/06/13 at 16:05:01
Post Tools
piefr1 wrote on 06/06/13 at 15:48:29:

quote:
"Application area: [...] Cheating, if you are a studen[t]..."
unquote
Roll Eyes Lips Sealed
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
piefr1
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 17
Joined: 02/17/07
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #386 - 06/06/13 at 15:48:29
Post Tools
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 865
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #385 - 06/06/13 at 14:34:15
Post Tools
MartinC wrote on 06/06/13 at 10:43:53:
You'd surely have to hold your hand in a rather odd position to consistently get a proper view of the whole board? Especially for rapid chess. Clothing is rather more logical.


If cameras are available that are small enough to be almost invisible, they could either be in the clothing or as suggested on the hands. The photo on the ChessBase site shows that he supported his chin with his hands in almost a praying position. The camera could perhaps have been on the hands or concealed behind the hands in his clothing.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #384 - 06/06/13 at 11:34:50
Post Tools
Just to see what hysteria can produce all this: (Google translated)

Quote:
OPEN LETTER TO MPES

By Christo Tsankov in the Word of God against the deceptions of the occult! ( Files )

To the Minister of Physical Education and Sports
to Bulgarian Chess Federation - Sofia

Cc: President of Bulgaria, Prime Minister of Bulgaria, MPs of the 42 th National Assembly, Attorney General Director of the National Security, Agency Media Bulgarian

Bulgarian public open letter from Hristo Tsankov Ruse [url=www. facebook.com]www. facebook.com[/url] / hi.tsankov

Dear Madam Minister, through this open letter I wish to inform you of an unprecedented case, formed around a Bulgarian chess talent Borislav Ivanov, due to the criminal activities of the leadership of the Bulgarian Chess Federation against his personality, dignity and professional career. Urge to take immediate responses and actions within your competence. Lens: On 06/02/2013 bTV aired in its show "BTV reporters' dock. Bulgarian film about chess genius Borislav Ivanov accused of leading Bulgarian chess players in the implementation of fraud schemes have won him chess matches and tournaments. Complete and objective information on the whole case can be obtained from the following links:

06.02.2013 / Borislav Ivanov - guilty until proven innocent: http://www.btv.bg/shows/btv-reporterite/videos/video/

ml

06/02/2013 / Rogue or chess genius Borislav Ivanov?
http://www.btv.bg/shows/btv-reporterite/videos/video/1058110458-Izmamnik_ili_sha...

21.5.2013 / Borislav Ivanov - Chess genius or

GM Borislav Ivanov crook has implanted lens in the eye!
http://www.blitz.bg/sport/article/177923

Borislav Ivanov:
http://www.facebook.com/borislavivanovchess

From the information given by the links above, shows the following:
1. All allegations of Bulgarian and foreign players and journalists against Borislav Ivanov are absolutely unfounded. Most of them are absurd and ridiculous.
2. Against Borislav Ivanov is an organized criminal campaign to discredit and eliminate the professional arena of Bulgarian and world chess. The campaign is led by both the Bulgarian players and the management of the Bulgarian Chess Federation.
3. Against Borislav Ivanov has made ​​a strong mental and psychological harassment.
4. The management of the Bulgarian Chess Federation has stopped illegal racing Rights Borislav Ivanov for a period of 4 months. This fact is openly admitted by the Speaker of the BCF interviewed by the show "BTV reporters!" What a shame!
5. After a rigorous medical examinations with the latest copper. equipment shown no implants, devices, micro, lenses, etc. in his brain, teeth, eyes and body! These ridiculous accusations are exposed!
6. Borislav Ivanov was repeatedly provoked by leading Bulgarian chess opponents, vulgarity, insults, lies and slanders uttered against both himself and in the air on a number of television shows.
7. Borislav Ivanov is poor but smart and talented Bulgarian boy who deserves only support, moral, professional and financial. Bulgaria in his person may have a second world champion! Speaking of "World Champion", I can not share that personal I have known a world champion Veselin Topalov and his brother Alexander Topalov, whom even have classmates from the English School in Rousse. As an amateur chess player considers that Bulgaria has a lot of world chess, but the truth is that if it was not disgraceful "toilet war" Kramnik, Topalov sheshte triumph several years in a row with the world title. Therefore resent infinitely many baseless accusations, slanders and insults against Borislav Ivanov from rough violations of BCF in connection with the unprecedented withdrawal of racing rights of all malicious and immoral campaign against him and the lack of basic ethics and education in relation to This young chess talent. Therefore, given the above, urge the Minister of Physical Education and Sports, as well as the competent state institutions such as the Prosecutor's Office and National Security Agency, to respond promptly and adequately to the Output signal from me, so illegally stopped racing Rights Borislav Ivanov to be restored. I believe that the published information in "BTV reporters" provides sufficient grounds to bring criminal proceedings against the leadership of BCF after her spokesman openly confesses and admits that the federation has violated its own constitution in its attitude towards Borislav Ivanov. Apart from this, are violated his civil and constitutional rights and made ​​a strong mental and psychological pressure and harassment of young Bulgarian talent with violating his prestige and dignity. Please open this letter be brought to the entrance. number in state institutions to which it is sent. Bulgarian implore interested members to also take on the issue.

Sincerely: Hristo Tsankov, SDACB
www.facebook.com / hi.tsankov
city Ruse 03/06/2013

Application: Explicit give my consent to this open letter to be used by Borislav Ivanov and relevant state institutions in any legal proceedings.

Unquote
Roll Eyes
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1984
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #383 - 06/06/13 at 10:43:53
Post Tools
You'd surely have to hold your hand in a rather odd position to consistently get a proper view of the whole board? Especially for rapid chess. Clothing is rather more logical.

Goodness if it was all done with a chip directly in the brain there might even be an argument that it was legal. It'd be very hard to argue that is was external assistance.....

Luckily that's a fair way off.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #382 - 06/06/13 at 10:39:33
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 06/06/13 at 08:33:38:
From what I can make of it, it seems pretty clear an accomplice would have to be working with the cheater, and this is how the French guys cheated in less sophisticated manner. Its this need for an accomplice that makes me believe cheating will never be widespread in chess - sooner or later, as with the French case, the cheater will be caught because of his accomplice.


Put aside all the fantastic scenarios in the science fiction movies, I believe there is only one possible (and real) scenario.
A tiny camera attached (sticked, glued) on one of the fingers of the hand can transmit a 3d view of the chess board to the accomplice which is in the hotel room. The accomplice operates with an engine (not necessarily Houdini 3, by the way) and returns a voice signal to the receiving set placed deep into the ear of our phenomenon.
Nothing exceptional, nothing extraordinary - like a chip in the brain, teeth-vibrating sets, x-ray lens and whatnots!
This means that any 'sterile' room will do!  Wink
As for the statements of the hero that he is ready for a match with GM Kiril Georgiev in such 'sterile' conditions and he will crush him, well...let's see who's going to crush who!  Cool
One is sure, even if GM Georgiev beats 'our guy' 10-0 (and the boy would explain this with bla-blas like conditions, expectations, pressure and alike), there will be no guarantee that the hero won't re-start the cheating system right on his next tournament, with the ease of "all you saw that I didn't cheat, now why do you suspect me" behaviour.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 865
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #381 - 06/06/13 at 10:11:59
Post Tools
TalJechin wrote on 06/06/13 at 09:12:32:
it might mean he's got some kind of receiver device under the skin in the hand...


One of the ChessBase articles has a picture of him in play. Whilst he uses his hands to prop up his head, as do many players, his hands are under his chin rather than over his ears. I did notice that his hair obscures his ears, so a suspicious arbiter might ask him to comb his hair so his ears were visible. His hands are visible, seemingly ruling that out as a transmission method, you might want to request that he removes his shoes, given the devices used for card counting in casinos.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #380 - 06/06/13 at 09:12:32
Post Tools
Just saw a comment on Fb from someone who'd talked to the one of the losing opponents: "He stayed away from the board for the first minutes, apparently in order to avoid shaking hands."

If he always avoids shaking hands before (and after?) the game, it might mean he's got some kind of receiver device under the skin in the hand...

Besides, if everyone insists on shaking hands and he refuses, then that would be grounds for kicking him out. As with Short vs some other Bulgarians Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2891
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #379 - 06/06/13 at 08:33:38
Post Tools
From what I can make of it, it seems pretty clear an accomplice would have to be working with the cheater, and this is how the French guys cheated in less sophisticated manner. Its this need for an accomplice that makes me believe cheating will never be widespread in chess - sooner or later, as with the French case, the cheater will be caught because of his accomplice.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #378 - 06/06/13 at 08:08:41
Post Tools
There are rumours that one of the major TV's in Bulgaria will try to organize a match between the phenomenon and GM Kiril Georgiev which would take place in an isolated room, under special conditions.  Roll Eyes
I don't think it would be a solution to the common problem though.
Anti-cheating measures have to be regulated in order to give opportunities to play fair chess everywhere. I don't think we all have to play in isolated rooms or alike..
Besides, what would settle such a match, whatever the result?  Huh
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #377 - 06/06/13 at 07:01:52
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/05/13 at 21:39:14:
The Bulgarian Chess Federation overstepped their bounds by banning Ivanov. But FIDE should move quickly to set up criteria for judging human and computer play.

The goal should be to make sure that the next Magnus Carlsen is exonerated, but cheats are caught. Kenneth Regan has shown that this is indeed an achievable goal.


As pointed out a couple of pages ago, Regan's solution only works if the cheater uses the engine's move every time. A smart cheater with reasonable chess skills would never be caught by Regan's method.

As for what FIDE can do, I would suggest a task force containing a few individuals with complementing skills in technology, science and illusions - the real Houdini would be an ideal member if he had still been alive.

Unlike the doping patrols in other sports, this task force should be able to visit tournaments where the organisers have reported suspicions, and catch any cheater red-handed. While, perhaps more importantly, also being able to clear individuals to stop debates like this!  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #376 - 06/05/13 at 21:39:14
Post Tools
Ivanov's results are not the reason people are saying he plays like a computer.

People say he plays like a computer because his match-up rate is impossibly high. Even in positions where human GMs would play better than a computer, he still plays like a computer.

I do not believe for an instant that it is possible to play exactly like a computer in novel positions. It is very possible to follow certain lines that a computer recommended. Anish Giri and Hou Yifan have both specialized in openings that have been heavily analysed by computers. But even they have nowhere near the engine match-up rates that Ivanov has.

The Bulgarian Chess Federation overstepped their bounds by banning Ivanov. But FIDE should move quickly to set up criteria for judging human and computer play.

The goal should be to make sure that the next Magnus Carlsen is exonerated, but cheats are caught. Kenneth Regan has shown that this is indeed an achievable goal. But commentators such as Lilov have only made things more difficult.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 865
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #375 - 06/05/13 at 14:51:38
Post Tools

But this was a "one shot" - one of the key difference between a good club player and a master (IM, GM) is that the master can play on high level consitently and that the club player has his ups and downs.



He's a player in his twenties. You should not rule out the possibility that he has improved to IM or GM standard. If he is that standard and on good form, beating IMs and GMs can be expected.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #374 - 06/05/13 at 12:32:33
Post Tools
RdC wrote on 06/05/13 at 09:50:20:
Vass wrote on 06/05/13 at 09:32:36:
Just another article that wouldn't help at all..  Undecided


Andrew Martin also annotates the Tromp game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OLzbPytRKY

By contrast, he doesn't find anything untoward or especially difficult to find by White. 

Personally it reminded me of the type of game that Julian Hodgson in particular would play in his heyday in the 1990s.

I wouldn't rule out that Ivanov studies fairly intensively with chess engines, so in at least some of his games the high correlation can be explained by reproducing previously seen ideas.

I could have played this game with White on a good day and win against some GM - well something I already managed in rapid chess. But this was a "one shot" - one of the key difference between a good club player and a master (IM, GM) is that the master can play on high level consitently and that the club player has his ups and downs.

It's exactly this point where I think that Ivanov is cheating - he has his lucky punchs in 5 games a row - not very probable...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #373 - 06/05/13 at 10:05:15
Post Tools
RdC wrote on 06/05/13 at 09:50:20:
Vass wrote on 06/05/13 at 09:32:36:
Just another article that wouldn't help at all..  Undecided


Andrew Martin also annotates the Tromp game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OLzbPytRKY

By contrast, he doesn't find anything untoward or especially difficult to find by White. 

Personally it reminded me of the type of game that Julian Hodgson in particular would play in his heyday in the 1990s.

I wouldn't rule out that Ivanov studies fairly intensively with chess engines, so in at least some of his games the high correlation can be explained by reproducing previously seen ideas.

Everything is possible..
For example, at the end of this game white had about 7 minutes left on the clock (the time control was 10 minutes with 5 seconds increment per person), while his opponent, GM Kiril Georgiev, who defeated Garry Kasparov in blitz several years ago, had no time left at all..  Roll Eyes
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 34
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo