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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) FIDE is killing international chess events (Read 4263 times)
RdC
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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #12 - 01/29/13 at 19:33:02
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Ender wrote on 01/29/13 at 18:14:27:
I don't understand why they need my passport data, this is strange.


I get the idea they want to issue a form of chess identity card. So if you have to register in person for a tournament, you are required to present your passport and FIDE card so as to show that you aren't an imposter. It sounds ridiculous, but it's in the mindset of some organisers alongside the idea that you have to be seated at the board when play starts, else be defaulted.
  
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Scarblac
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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #11 - 01/29/13 at 19:30:51
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Markovich wrote on 01/29/13 at 18:42:29:
I have no particular position on the question of FIDE dues (or fees, or whatever they are called).  But to me, 20 Euro doesn't seem like a lot to pay for an international rating system.  Won't some of the money also go to promote chess?  In the US we pay dues to the USCF which are on the order of 20 Euro.  Much of it goes to promote chess, but they also provide a national rating service.  If you want Chess Life, their magazine, you pay more.

I removed my earlier post; it was based on the belief that the License would cost 20 euro, but it doesn't say that. It only says that if you get de-listed and later need to be relisted, that costs 20 euro. It doesn't say how you could possibly get de-listed.

Now that I've read it better, it does seem to be related to the Atalik situation, that a national federation that has a conflict with one of the players of that country can ban him from playing chess not only in that country but in any FIDE rated competition, by de-listing him.

Which I would understand if it's about things like bans for cheating, but in the case of Atalik it seems to be just politics, and it ought to be impossible to ban a chess player from playing in his own country, let alone in the rest of the world.
  
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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #10 - 01/29/13 at 19:15:44
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Quote:
But to me, 20 Euro doesn't seem like a lot to pay for an international rating system.  Won't some of the money also go to promote chess?  In the US we pay dues to the USCF which are on the order of 20 Euro.


The organizer of a tournament pays already for every rated player. And running a rating programm is not more than a simple math exercise for a PC.

The licences requires datas which are subject of data provacy acts and here i think the FIDE will be challenged by national authorities. And last not least. In Germany was in the last week a criminal coup where the offender used photos from the internet to falsify documents and when they have access to passport numbers ...
  
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Markovich
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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #9 - 01/29/13 at 18:42:29
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Scarblac wrote on 01/29/13 at 16:12:41:
Ender wrote on 01/28/13 at 23:31:34:
From what i have heard FIDE want's to get 20 euros from licences from players. The problem is, that in many countries 20 euro is a lot. Maybe it's not a lot in Germany, UK, USA, France and so on, but in Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Cuba it's quite a lot of money :/

In the Netherlands, I pay about 80 euro per year for my chess club membership, and that includes all the fees, from renting the playing space every thursday evening, to the costs for the regional federation that organizes regional leagues and so on, to the costs of the national federation and its rating system.

To add 20 euro to that just for FIDE ratings is ludicrous.

Also, why would any tournament want to have its games be FIDE rated now? It would only mean that fewer people are allowed to compete. They even risk fines if they accidentally let a non-registered player play!

I hope the Dutch chess federation just decided to have its own leagues and tournament be non-FIDE-rated.


I have no particular position on the question of FIDE dues (or fees, or whatever they are called).  But to me, 20 Euro doesn't seem like a lot to pay for an international rating system.  Won't some of the money also go to promote chess?  In the US we pay dues to the USCF which are on the order of 20 Euro.  Much of it goes to promote chess, but they also provide a national rating service.  If you want Chess Life, their magazine, you pay more.

A good point was made about countries like Cuba.  From what I can tell, practically no one in Cuba has much money.  But if you made a country-specific hardship rate for most other places in Latin America, you would have to confront that some chess players from those countries are fairly well-to-do.  One solution might be to issue hardship certificates to the national federations and let them decide which individuals should get one.  Very few or none would be issued in North America or Western Europe.
  

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Ender
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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #8 - 01/29/13 at 18:14:27
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Thank you guys for your replies. I think this burocracy is not good for chess. I don't understand why they need my passport data, this is strange. I hope they will not charge this 20 euros. It's a lot in my opinion. Chess expensive enough right now... We will see what they will do in next months. I don't think such burocracy can be good in any way.
  

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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #7 - 01/29/13 at 13:12:00
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Quote:
Maybe it's not a lot in Germany, UK, USA, France and so on


Even in Germany it is too much money because you do not have an adequate reward. I will demonstrate the situation with an example - it is my chess club.

We have 17 registered members, 3 have a FIDE-Elo. The FIDE-Elo is at least 200 points higher than our german DWZ because we got the Elo some years ago and as the Elo does not rate games between rated and non rated players the ELO has a tendency to be higher. I have seen this effect in my last tournament. At the start i have lost against an unrated player but played later better. At the end my DWZ was little bit higher but much higher was my ELO gain because the loss against the unrated player did not count.

One problem is now that for rating prices the higher rating counts. It is usually the ELO and that means you have often to compete against better players who have a much higher DWZ. One of my friends now loses sometimes to depress his ELO. Non ELO-rated events will be fine for him. He and the other players simply do not need the ELO. And my ELO rating also gives my no advantages. So i do not see any sense to gain a player licence and provide all personal informations.

But you need players unter ELO 2200 like me to run Opens because they pay the fees and fincance the tournment. The player licence is a huge hurdle and a risk for the organizers. I think that many organizers will now offer more non ELO-rated tournaments which is good for the club player but will hurt semi- professional and professional players. Other tournaments will disappear.

The FIDE must  realize that they need rated players but an ordinary club player does not need an ELO rating and esp. not in federations who have their own national rating system.
  
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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #6 - 01/29/13 at 09:22:00
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English very clear and making an awful lot more sense than this thing from FIDE Smiley

As per the other thread its a huge problem for even the richer countries because they generally have very strong laws about data privacy which especially affect the passport number bit.....

Never mind that someone (on the english chess forum) reckons that playing a wild card in a FIDE rated teams event could cost >100 euro's all in.
  
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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #5 - 01/29/13 at 00:24:56
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Ender wrote on 01/28/13 at 23:31:34:
From what i have heard FIDE want's to get 20 euros from licences from players.


Different FIDE officials pull in different directions. The idea of extending FIDE ratings to 1000 was to encourage the development of international chess at lower playing standards and to implement the FIDE rating system as a replacement for national systems.

If you get other FIDE officials making it both more expensive and more bureaucratic for events to be rated and for new players to take part, that seems likely to have the opposite effect, namely to discourage players from taking part and organisers from running them.
  
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Ender
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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #4 - 01/28/13 at 23:31:34
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From what i have heard FIDE want's to get 20 euros from licences from players. The problem is, that in many countries 20 euro is a lot. Maybe it's not a lot in Germany, UK, USA, France and so on, but in Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Cuba it's quite a lot of money :/ I think chess should be a much less expensive game. Nowadays it's quite expensive I mean "regular" players need to cover all expenses including hotels, entry fees, chess books (or other materials) and so on. In soccer even in minor leagues players are sponsored. In chess it's almost impossible to be sponsred as a amateur player. And now 20 euros for licence....

I'm sorry for my english, I'm still learning.
  

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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #3 - 01/28/13 at 22:48:01
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Please stick to chess here. If you want to discuss politics, go to the chit chat section.
  
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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #2 - 01/28/13 at 21:51:04
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...

As for FIDE, the delegates and the head (the president) strike me as primarily opportunists who are using the system for their own ends. Since they have nothing constructive to do, they're passing regulations like these.

Also, I think, this has something to do with the Turks and that issue with Suat Atalık, where he wasn't allowed to compete.  Then there's the  lack of support even from the Chinese towards Hou or India towards Koneru. Let's face it, unless you're in the top 20, your rights are likely to be abused.


Edited:
Edited to remove inflammatory references to politics. If you wish to discuss politics, go to the chit chat section. ~SF January 29, 2013
  

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Re: FIDE is killing international chess events
Reply #1 - 01/28/13 at 20:56:42
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Yep.

This is discussed in another thread as well:
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1359114215
  
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Ender
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FIDE is killing international chess events
01/28/13 at 19:35:06
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http://www.fide.com/component/content/article/1-fide-news/6763-new-qc-regulation...

I don't understand politics of FIDE. Thet seems to do everything to kill local ELO tournaments with such regulations and burocration....
  

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