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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence (Read 8359 times)
TonyRo
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #25 - 02/09/17 at 12:28:44
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Those threads are where I picked up the ideas - thanks to Brabo for sharing many moons ago!  Grin
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #24 - 02/09/17 at 10:03:44
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8.Rc1 is still not well known it seems. We have discussed it already twice on chesspub see a first time in 2012: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1267504014/30
once more in 2016: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1444067885

Mea culpa! Yes, I saw this discussion at the time, but then as you can tell forgot all about it! What with this and Tony's line it's not looking good for 5 ...g6. A pity! 
  
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #23 - 02/09/17 at 08:26:03
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8.Rc1 is still not well known it seems. We have discussed it already twice on chesspub see a first time in 2012: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1267504014/30
once more in 2016: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1444067885
  
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TonyRo
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #22 - 02/09/17 at 02:47:10
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Michael Ayton wrote on 02/09/17 at 01:17:58:
Can you help, Tony?

I dunno! But I wasn't all that excited about Black's prospects after 8.Rc1 O-O 9.b3 dxe5 10.fxe5 c5 11.d5 Bc8 12.Be2!? N6d7 13.Nf3 Nxe5 14.Nxe5 Bxe5 15.Bxc5 Qc7 16.Bd4 Bxh2 17.Qd2!. I spent quite a few hours a few nights ago taking a look at this line and the alternatives for both sides. Even if Black survives here, do you want to play this in an OTB game 6 months from now when you can't remember what you're supposed to do?  Cheesy

Michael Ayton wrote on 02/09/17 at 01:17:58:
Meanwhile in the 8 d5 line, wasn't 10 ... c6 (what else?) played yonks ago by Sergeev, who I thought had pioneered the system?

Yes:



I hope someone can repair this one - I would really rather play the Sergeev variation over the standard main line of the 4PA.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #21 - 02/09/17 at 01:17:58
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To be honest, I cannot see great problems for Black after 8.Rc1.
Maybe I missed something?

I imagine White could have some way of deliberately jettisoning a central pawn for attack/initiative, though I don't immediately see it (and it might not accord with spending a tempo on Rc1). Can you help, Tony?

Meanwhile in the 8 d5 line, wasn't 10 ... c6 (what else?) played yonks ago by Sergeev, who I thought had pioneered the system?
  
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #20 - 02/08/17 at 22:40:12
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To be honest, I cannot see great problems for Black after 8.Rc1.
Maybe I missed something?
  
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TonyRo
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #19 - 02/08/17 at 13:20:47
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Doesn't seem all that relevant given Black's problems in the 8.Rc1 variation.
  
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #18 - 02/05/17 at 08:18:55
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1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. c4 Nb6 5. f4 g6 6. Nc3 Bg7 7. Be3 Be6 8. d5 Bc8
9. Nf3 O-O 10. Be2 c6 11. O-O Bg4 12. Qd2 cxd5
As far as I can see, 10. - c6 is a new move and Black has no problems.
  
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #17 - 12/12/13 at 20:11:19
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Bresando wrote on 04/05/13 at 16:52:43:
Since you're talking about move 9 alternatives, may I ask what's the current theoretical verdict on 9...Bg4?


A game today on this line. Both players have EL= greater than 2600 and Kovalenko is one of the few players over 2600 that "sometimes" plays the Alekhine
(others are Rozentalis, more often with also a game given below, and Shimanov - less often)

I must confess I was never atracted to 9...Bg4 but
apprently is a frequent choice of GMs (although they lose).
The game today uses a move criticized by G. Jones,
16...g6, in his analysis of the game Bologan-Rozentalis. I saw the game and apparently Black was Ok and it is not clear where it went wrong.



Onischuk,Vladimir (2591) - Kovalenko,Igor (2643) [B03]
Russian Cup Final 2013 Khanty-Mansyisk (1.1), 12.12.2013
[Robot 4]

1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.c4 Nb6 5.f4 dxe5 6.fxe5 Nc6 7.Be3 Bf5 8.Nc3 e6 9.Nf3 Bg4 10.Be2 Bxf3 11.gxf3 Qh4+ 12.Bf2 Qf4 13.c5 Nd5 14.Nxd5 exd5 15.Qd2 Qxd2+ 16.Kxd2 g6 17.f4 Bh6 18.Be3 f6 19.h4 0-0 20.h5 fxe5 21.fxe5 Bxe3+ 22.Kxe3 g5 23.h6 Rf4 24.Rag1 Re4+ 25.Kd2 Nxd4 26.Rxg5+ Kh8 27.Bg4 Rg8 28.Rxg8+ Kxg8 29.Bc8 Nf3+ 30.Kd1 Nxe5 31.Bxb7 Rd4+ 32.Ke2 Kf7 33.Rg1 Ng6 34.a3 Kf6 35.b4 Rh4 36.Rf1+ Ke6 37.Bc8+ Ke7 38.Bb7 d4 39.Rh1 Rg4 40.Bf3 Rf4 41.Bd5 Rg4 42.Kd2 Ne5 43.Rf1 Rg5 44.a4 Rh5 45.Rh1 Rxh1 46.Bxh1 Kf6 47.a5 c6 48.Be4 Kg5 49.b5 cxb5 50.c6 Kxh6 51.c7 Nc4+ 52.Kd3 Nd6 53.Kxd4 Kg7 54.Kc5 Nc8 55.Bb7 Ne7 1-0

Rozentalis also played the Alekhine, Luther against
him played the 4PA, this time 9...Be7.
Here is the game


« Last Edit: 12/13/13 at 11:43:15 by GMTonyKosten »  
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Kam
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #16 - 09/25/13 at 13:49:53
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lg
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #15 - 08/22/13 at 11:24:45
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Thanks

somehow, i recall seeing that someone mentions 8...Bc8 as the "safe" and normal continuation but
also mentioning the wild 8...Bf5 with no analysis;
that is why i asked

also I know that this site keeps several nice pieces of analysis (which in some cases are completely ignored by the site comentators - see, e.g., the last post by Paddy on the voroznev). And not sure whether this
line has not been here analised before
  
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #14 - 08/21/13 at 20:51:48
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Here is the game "translated" :



I think 8...Bc8 is more usual. And maybe more safe. Perhaps  another story of a rating favourite who needs to play for a win...?

Interesting game though, and sorry I dont know nothing about this piece sacrifice...

Ben
  

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lg
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #13 - 08/21/13 at 20:24:12
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I have seen today this game on playchess-com
It is a 4PA, variation discussed in Taylor's book and related with some of the lines given below,

the piece sacrífice is interesting

is it known?

lg


Moser,Eva (2433) - Fier,Alexandr (2595) [B03]
18. Vienna Open Vienna (5), 21.08.2013
[Robot 11]

1.e4 Cf6 2.e5 Cd5 3.d4 d6 4.c4 Cb6 5.f4 g6 6.Cc3 Bg7 7.Be3 Be6 8.d5 Bf5 9.c5 dxc5 10.Bxc5 0-0 11.Df3 C8d7 12.Bf2 g5 13.g4 Bg6 14.f5 Cxe5 15.De4 e6 16.fxg6 fxg6 17.Bxb6 axb6 18.0-0-0 exd5 19.Dxd5+ Dxd5 20.Cxd5 Txa2 21.Rb1 Tfa8 22.Cxc7 Cd3 23.Td2 Ta1+ 24.Rc2 T8a2 25.Cf3 Cxb2 26.Td8+ Rf7 27.Td7+ Rg8 28.Td8+ Rf7 29.Td7+ Rg8 ½-½

  
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #12 - 06/13/13 at 16:25:51
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Why do you assume the moves which lead to position 1 (Reply #2 by Dimis) are correct? Last year I already posted a link to my blog which presents new ideas for white: http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.be/2012/12/aljechin-met-g6.html
  
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Assessment of Position 1 by Dimis Reply #2
Reply #11 - 06/13/13 at 16:09:02
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #10 - 04/20/13 at 00:46:17
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Fascinating.  Thank you.

Bottom line though, Black is O.K.
  

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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #9 - 04/19/13 at 22:57:40
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Not sure but the follwoing game played between engines seems interesting
Move 12 from White is not common;
since it was played by an engine, Rybka4, might be worth a look; although I think Black is Ok


Rybka 4.1 (3091) - Stockfish 120413 (3121) [B03]
nTCEC - Stage 4 - Season 1 http://www.tcec-chess.net (10.2), 19.04.2013
[Hob]

2 x Intel Xeon E5-2689 1.e4   0.00/1  0  Cf6   0.00/1  0  2.e5   0.00/1  0  Cd5   0.00/1  0  3.d4   0.00/1  0  d6   0.00/1  0  4.c4   0.00/1  0  Cb6   0.00/1  0  5.f4   0.00/1  0  dxe5   0.00/1  0  6.fxe5   0.00/1  0  Cc6   0.00/1  0  7.Be3   0.00/1  0  Bf5   0.00/1  0  8.Cc3   0.00/1  0  e6   0.00/1  0  9.Cf3   0.19/23  5:49  Be7 (Bb4)  0.56/32  8:31  10.Be2 (d5)  0.21/20  9:28  10...0-0   0.24/31  3:27  11.0-0   0.23/21  4:02  f6   0.16/35  7:31  12.d5 (Qe1)  0.19/22  8:02  12...Cxe5   0.08/34  4:57  13.Cxe5   0.31/22  1:44  fxe5   0.20/35  1:36  14.g4   0.25/23  2:44  Bg6   0.24/36  3:22  15.dxe6   0.20/24  1:47  Txf1+   0.16/38  5:00  16.Dxf1   0.20/25  2:50  c6 (Bg5)  0.16/38  4:47  17.a4 (Rd1)  0.37/23  10:56  17...Bg5   0.28/37  3:28  18.Bf2 (Bc5)  0.37/22  10:02  18...Df6   0.00/36  3:18  19.a5   0.39/23  3:29  Cc8   0.00/35  3:27  20.a6 (Bc5)  0.39/24  4:13  20...Tb8   0.00/34  3:38  21.Bc5   0.39/23  4:16  Bf4   0.00/36  3:29  22.Td1   0.39/23  2:05  b6 (bxa6)  0.00/37  8:45  23.Ba3 (Bf2)  0.52/21  1:59  23...Ce7   -0.52/36  6:00  24.Td7   0.00/21  3:49  c5   -0.48/37  2:30  25.Txa7   0.00/22  2:22  Tf8   -0.52/36  4:51  26.Dg2   0.00/22  10:30  Dh4   -0.52/35  3:29  27.Rh1   -0.23/23  1:52  Be8 (Bd2)  0.00/36  4:42  28.Txe7   0.00/22  2:20  Dxe7   0.00/38  4:12  29.Bf3   0.00/23  52  e4 (Qh4)  -0.08/38  4:51  30.Cxe4 (Bxe4)  0.00/23  2:24  30...Bb8   0.00/37  3:18  31.Cg3   0.00/23  1:03  Txf3   0.00/37  3:30  32.Dxf3   0.00/23  40  Dxe6   0.00/38  4:43  33.Cf5   0.00/24  4:53  Bc6   0.00/36  4:36  34.Ce7+   0.00/22  27  Dxe7   0.00/36  4:31  35.Dxc6   0.00/26  12  De1+   0.00/35  4:25  36.Rg2   0.00/2  0  De2+   0.00/36  4:18  37.Rg1   0.00/26  19  Bxh2+ (Qxh2)  0.00/34  3:01  38.Rh1   0.01/1  0  Bg3   0.00/37  2:43  39.Dd5+ (Qa8)  0.00/29  3:36  39...Rf8   0.00/37  1:10  40.Dd8+ (Qa8)  0.00/30  3:27  40...Rf7   0.00/36  50  41.Dd7+ (Qd5)  0.00/32  5:02  41...Rf6 (Kg8)  0.00/38  2:39  42.Df5+ (Qd8)  0.00/30  3:44  42...Re7  0.00/12  0  ½-½

  
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #8 - 04/11/13 at 01:43:40
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I believe the consensus is that Black is slightly worse with best play. However, since I had White against 9...Bg4 in two games of a CC thematic and didn't manage to win either one, I am perhaps not the best person to ask about White's best line of play. There have been some updates on this subject, though not recently.
  

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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #7 - 04/05/13 at 16:52:43
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Since you're talking about move 9 alternatives, may I ask what's the current theoretical verdict on 9...Bg4?
  
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Markovich
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #6 - 04/05/13 at 15:12:58
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Yes, if you play 9...Be7, which is probably the best move, you have to know that line inside out.  There has been a lot of discussion on this board as to whether 9...Qd7 is viable; I'm unsure about it.

But the complex line to which you point is fully viable for Black; it's only necessary to learn it.
  

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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #5 - 04/04/13 at 19:49:39
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I you have a good memory there is this line, the old absolute main line



This position is tricky for both sides. As White I crushed a FM at local club twice in two rapid games so when I tried it in a standard time game he did not enter this line. This line is complicated that computers has no clue on what is going on.
  
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #4 - 04/04/13 at 08:58:53
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With reference to Reply #2 by dimis,
Diagram 2 seems to be attained by the move order
1.e4 Nf6  2.e5 Nd5  3.d4 d6  4.c4 Nb6  5.f4 g6  (Sergeev Variation)
6.Nc3 Bg7 7.Be3 (White has chosen the sharp Nc3 and Be3 system and black must play very accurately) 
7…. Be6  8.d5 Bc8 9.Nf3 c6  10.Kf2

My comprehensive analysis of this line shows that the alternative
8…. Bf5 is much stronger.
  
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #3 - 03/31/13 at 03:56:47
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Since you ask, yes, Black is passive. I would advocate 5...dxe5 6.fxe5 Nc6, which is fairly good for Black.
  

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dimis
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #2 - 03/30/13 at 14:46:26
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As I understand white must play a plan simiral of these  positions...
Move by move book give a game that black goes ok but....   Smiley
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Re: 4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
Reply #1 - 03/21/13 at 10:54:19
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Which line is supposed to be passive for Black? I like this g6 move although you have to be a bit precise with the order in which you develop your pieces.
  
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dimis
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4 pawn attack,Alekhine defence
03/19/13 at 19:26:42
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Hello,
I want to ask your opinion for this variation.Alekhine alert has it for black but a friend told me that it is passive,white has something so black gets a bad position.Your opinion?What is the best defence at 4 pawn attack ?
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