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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed) (Read 17818 times)
Marcellus
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #40 - 03/07/18 at 02:22:24
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The pgns also contain commentary and aren't just bare game scores.
  
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mn
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #39 - 03/07/18 at 02:14:07
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The PGNs are for sale separately, so no.
  
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VGA
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #38 - 03/07/18 at 00:02:13
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Can the pgns be shared or are they somehow copyrighted (huh?)
  
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #37 - 03/06/18 at 16:44:27
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I have the DVD. It's great seeing Tiger talk about the opening. There's not a lot of theory, just some illustrative games and general ideas. The first 8/21 videos are on the Pirc vs the Austrian, mind you.

I checked the Hippo and the Averbakh sections. He shows some game(s) he's played recently, but doesn't show much in terms of theory or anything.

Most of the videos is Tiger trying to put into words what his general feelings about positions are. I love it. "Here I feel like the LSB is too strong." "Here Black is maybe a bit worse but he has play." "Generally I would hate to play Nb6 but here I liked it because of reason X." Simon Williams is there as a student, mostly, giving some opinions here and there. Sometimes Tiger strongly disagrees with him and Simon accepts. Maybe some of it is for didactic reasons.

edit: there's a bunch of .pgn's too. But I think mostly the selling point is having Tiger talk about his opening for 5 hours and 30 minutes.
  
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Bibs
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #36 - 03/05/18 at 13:28:51
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And made in a shed, no less.

A toss up over the last year which would come first: Man City to the title, Trump (note: an inferior Pantone orange) impeached, or this arrives.

And... The Original Orange One lands it. Carrot juice all round, and we raise our glasses. Cheers!
  
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JEH
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #35 - 03/05/18 at 06:42:29
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VGA wrote on 03/05/18 at 03:44:36:
the link


Tigers Modern/Double Tuition - New GingerGM DVD - Preview/Trailer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tkJiToQcIM


  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #34 - 03/05/18 at 03:44:36
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mn wrote on 02/19/18 at 06:45:22:
Yeah I dunno what's happening here - from what I can remember, it was GingerGM's "next" project since 2016.

Here is a preview GingerGM posted on his YT channel. He looks deadly serious, too!

EDIT: well I can't post the link but you can go to his channel, the name of the video of "Tigers Modern/ Double Tuition ..."
  
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mn
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #33 - 02/19/18 at 06:45:22
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Yeah I dunno what's happening here - from what I can remember, it was GingerGM's "next" project since 2016.
  
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #32 - 02/18/18 at 15:37:49
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Any news about this DVD?
Would be a shame if it didn't come out after having been recorded.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #31 - 07/06/17 at 18:03:43
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As Simon "GingerGM" Williams on several occasions mentioned, Tiger already recorded a complete DVD on the Modern in Williams' studio at the beginning of the year, which should be published any time soon!

I didn’t know about this -- thanks. Great news!

Further to the ‘missing’ Tiger line 5 Qd2 b5 6 f3 Nd7 7 h4, Black can of course here play (as well as 7 …h6) 7 …Ngf6 8 g4 h6 9 0-0-0 Nb6! with a transposition to the line already discussed. Furthermore, if instead he plays 7 …h5 and White replies 8 Nh3 (8 0-0-0 Bb7 9 Nh3 Rc8 is covered by Tiger), then as well as 8 …Bb7 (which I suppose T. is ‘implicitly’ giving since it transposes to three of his tabiyas after 9 0-0-0 Rc8 as above, or 9 Ng5 c6, or 9 a4 c6) Black can, as Lakdawala points out in his book, play 8 …Ngf6 9 Ng5 Nb6!?. Lakdawala gives here 10 b3 c6 11 Rd1 0-0 12 Ne2 Qc7 (Perez Candelario-Granda Zuniga) as OK for Black. I imagine 10 a4 c6!? is OK too, and ditto 10 0-0-0 e6!? as played by Chatalbashev since White isn’t going to get Bf1-h3 in. And just to add to Black’s possibilities, I notice too that Spraggett and others have played 7 …h5 8 Nh3 c5!?.

Flexible, or what! It seems really odd to me though that Tiger doesn’t mention the 6 h4 Nf6 7 f3 Nbd7 (or 6 f3 Nd7 7 h4 Ngf6) 8 g4 h6 9 0-0-0 Nb6!? plan, especially when the stem game features Seirawan as Black! (Lakdawala gives instead 9 Nh3 Nb6!?, as played, twice, by none other than Svidler!)

Meanwhile, can anyone answer for me this conundrum? In the second edition of his book, Tiger gives various reasons (and with varying degrees of emphasis) for now preferring 5 …b5 to 5 …Nd7 after 5 Qd2. (Lakdawala has the opposite preference.) On p. 187, Tiger gives as one reason that he likes “to be able to play a quick …Bb7 when White plays f2-f4, as shown in [his] Games 7-11”. He’s referring to the Austrian line where White plays an early Be3: namely, 4 f4 a6 5 Be3 b5 6 Bd3 Bb7 7 Nf3. Here Black often plays 7 …Nd7 but can also go 7 …Nf6!?. Tiger seems to regard both moves as fully playable and doesn’t suggest that the former is inferior to the latter. Since this is so, and since White doesn’t seem to have significant alternatives on moves 6 and 7, what exactly is the basis for Tiger’s dislike of 5 …Nd7? I’m especially curious since only in one place (p. 66, referring to Peptan-Stefanova) does T. comment on a 4 f4 a6 5 Be3 Austrian line that actually includes the move Qd1-d2 (which in any case he says is inferior to Qd1-e2!).
  
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #30 - 07/05/17 at 13:02:47
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CarriedbyGg wrote on 06/30/17 at 12:23:16:
To further complicate everything, as far as I have read the following idea was not mentioned before:

The Najdorf-esque Nd7-b6!
This idea was mentioned by Moskalenko in his book and is an interesting addition to the normal plans.


Agreed, the Nbd7-b6 followed by Nfd7-idea wasn't mentioned (and recommended) by Tiger, but it's a healthy idea in terms of Black's piece placement, in my opinion especially in the h4-h6-complex.

For example I like Black's position after

1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.Be3 a6 5.Qd2 b5 6.f3 Nd7 7.0-0-0 Bb7 8.h4 h6 9.Nh3 Ngf6 10.g4 Nb6 11.Bd3 Nfd7 (voluntarily!) 12.Qf2 b4 13.Ne2 c5

Stigma wrote on 06/30/17 at 13:08:58:
...Nbd7-b6 is a well-known manoeuvre in the Pirc line 4.Be3 c6 5.Qd2 b5


Indeed, a line like

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 c6 5.Qd2 b5 6.f3 Nbd7 7.g4 Nb6 8.h4 h5 9.g5 Nfd7 10.f4 b4 11.Nd1 c5

is quite similar to the Modern line above, so obiously the Pirc and Modern variations have several themes in common (in particular when Black finally played ...Ngf6, of course).

CarriedbyGg wrote on 06/30/17 at 12:23:16:
The beauty of these lines is that Black has different plans as his disposal.


In my eyes, this is a key point in the Modern Defence in general - its flexibily. Black's opportunity picking serveral themes, motifs and piece settings according to White's plans compensate for Black's limited space. Furthermore (as Suba already pointed out), move by move White has to reveal his intentions just before Black does. Playing the Modern with only one plan/system in mind cannot be correct, that's not the reason why it's called "Modern"! Wink

Michael Ayton wrote on 06/30/17 at 13:32:34:
I notice, in fact, that last year Tiger actually reached the position after 8 0-0-0 h6 by transposition! Hopefully this means that he now agrees with CarriedbyGg and was braced to meet 9 g4 with 9 ...Nb6! The point, I suppose, is not so much to ensure the completion of the ...Nd7-b6/...Nf6-d7 manoeuvre, because even with the inferior move-order Black can still carry this out, but that by avoiding a premature ...Bb7 as CarriedbyGg recommends, Black creates more telling counterplay -- he now possibly threatens both ...b4 and ...h5, so White can't really go 10 Kb1 and might have to fall back on something like 10 h5 g5 11 b3.


I'm learning here a lot!  Grin
Delaying ...Bb7 in order to get in a quick Nbd7-b6, "threatening" ..b4 & ...Nc4 in some positions indeed seems like a very good point.

Michael Ayton wrote on 06/30/17 at 13:32:34:
Backlund-Hillarp Persson went 7 ...h6 8 0-0-0 Nbd7 (0-1, 50). This seems a perfectly fine transpositional option since 8 g4 Nbd7 obviously transposes to 7 ...Nbd7 8 g4 h6.


Just for completion here's Tiger's pretty nice game.



As Simon "GingerGM" Williams on several occasions mentioned, Tiger already recorded a complete DVD on the Modern in Williams' studio at the beginning of the year, which should be published any time soon! Cheesy
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #29 - 06/30/17 at 13:32:34
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I assume the ideas are roughly the same in this Modern case.

Sure. But personally I'm more concerned about a White Knight landing on g5 than I am a pawn. For that reason (and to try to answer my own question above!?), after 8 0-0-0 I think 8 ...h6! must be correct. (If 8 ...Bb7?! instead, hoping to transpose to Haubro-Tiger in Reply #23 above after 9 Nh3 h6, White goes 9 g4! and Black may have nothing better than 9 ...h6 transposing to the line Tiger 'would not bet' on being trustworthy.)

I notice, in fact, that last year Tiger actually reached the position after 8 0-0-0 h6 by transposition!* Hopefully this means that he now agrees with CarriedbyGg and was braced to meet 9 g4 with 9 ...Nb6! The point, I suppose, is not so much to ensure the completion of the ...Nd7-b6/...Nf6-d7 manoeuvre, because even with the inferior move-order Black can still carry this out, but that by avoiding a premature ...Bb7 as CarriedbyGg recommends, Black creates more telling counterplay -- he now possibly threatens both ...b4 and ...h5, so White can't really go 10 Kb1 and might have to fall back on something like 10 h5 g5 11 b3.

Continuing the theme of flexibility, it's worth noting that Black can also arrive at these positions from a [5 Qd2 b5] 6 h4 h6 move order! -- 7 0-0-0 Nd7 8 f3 Ngf6, or 7 f3 Nd7 8 0-0-0 Ngf6. In fact it looks as though 8 ...Ngf6 here scores well/best for Black. (Svidler has also played 8 ...Nb6 here. I never really know whether 9 d5 is an objection in such positions: can anyone say whether it's so, or whether d4-d5 would be stronger or weaker here than in the same position with g2-g4 and ...Ngf6 included?)


* Backlund-Hillarp Persson went 7 ...h6 8 0-0-0 Nbd7 (0-1, 50). This seems a perfectly fine transpositional option since 8 g4 Nbd7 obviously transposes to 7 ...Nbd7 8 g4 h6. Actually though, Tiger also played 7 ...Nbd7!? last year, against Quesada Perez, so the evidence mounts that he may now be of the same mind as CarriedbyGg. The game continued 9 Nh3 Nb6 10 g5 hg 11 Ng5 c6 12 0-0-0 b4 13 Nb1 a5, and although Black lost, this wasn't because of the opening.

« Last Edit: 07/01/17 at 11:45:56 by Michael Ayton »  
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Stigma
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #28 - 06/30/17 at 13:08:58
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...Nbd7-b6 is a well-known manoeuvre in the Pirc line 4.Be3 c6 5.Qd2 b5, which I used to play a lot. The main idea there is simply to give the knight on f6 a better retreat square than h5 or h7 if/when White kicks it with g4-g5. Though the knight on b6 also usefully covers d5 and might jump into a queenside attack on a4 or c4.

I assume the ideas are roughly the same in this Modern case. I'm probably just stating the obvious here. Smiley
  

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Michael Ayton
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #27 - 06/30/17 at 13:00:22
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The Najdorf-esque Nd7-b6!
This idea was mentioned by Moskalenko in his book and is an interesting addition to the normal plans.

Interesting. I haven't looked at this too closely and I must admit that in the past I've found all these ...Nf6 options very confusing. What's Black's plan here after 8 0-0-0?
  
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Re: The Modern Tiger (Tiger's Modern 2 ed)
Reply #26 - 06/30/17 at 12:23:16
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To further complicate everything, as far as I have read the following idea was not mentioned before:

The Najdorf-esque Nd7-b6!
This idea was mentioned by Moskalenko in his book and is an interesting addition to the normal plans. It occurs for example in



The idea is to delay h5 for a moment (as Nh5 already did discourage h5 for White), for example if White plays

8. Nh3 Bb7 then h5 will only be played after a white Nf4.

On

8. g4 black can play h6!? 9. 0-0-0 when 9. ... Nb6! was not mentioned by Tiger in his book (he only said he wouldn't bet that Bb7 is okay here). Now the Bc8 is still flexible and can be deployed on whatever diagonal is better for him.

The beauty of these lines is that Black has different plans as his disposal. I think it is important to not freak out if your opponent outsmarts you somehow and you can't chop off the knight on h3 with your bishop, position is still playable!
  
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