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Normal Topic Respect for NM title (Read 4039 times)
BPaulsen
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Re: Respect for NM title
Reply #6 - 06/19/13 at 00:00:59
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ErictheRed wrote on 06/17/13 at 18:40:31:
kylemeister wrote on 06/14/13 at 02:58:18:
By the way, on the matter of USCF vs. FIDE ratings (a subject which has come up here before), I noticed that this recent paper gives a formula which would e.g. convert 2200 FIDE to 2202 USCF, and 2300 FIDE to 2318 USCF. 

http://www.glicko.net/ratings/rating.system.pdf


Thanks Kylemeister; in my own experience, I feel that USCF rating and actual "chess strength" fluctuates a bit depending on where you are.  A 2200 player in a big city in California, for instance, doesn't seem very strong to me, but a 2200 player in a smaller town in Nebraska, Wyoming, Colorado, etc, does.  In those places, there are usually no-one rated above 2200 to gain points from so even if the player's strength increases his rating will often not.  In California there are a plethora of 2200, 2300, 2400+, etc players to snag points from as one improves.

My own subjective feeling about FIDE vs. USCF ratings, at least down in the 2100-2400 rating range, is that they are essentially equivalent, and it's interesting to see some analysis that justifies that.


I can vouch for this. Rural NMs have always been a different beast for me when compared to the urbanized ones that tend to be at their floor more often than not. Easy to gain points when there are people to take points from.

I can guarantee I am the only NM in at least 20 square miles from where I live. Arizona, as a state, doesn't have that many as it is, and many of the ones it does have are retired from over-the-board play like myself.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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ErictheRed
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Re: Respect for NM title
Reply #5 - 06/17/13 at 18:51:52
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Bibs wrote on 06/13/13 at 22:57:07:
Fair line drawn there by SF. Sensible.

Is NM really considered 'titled'? That is a bit much surely? That's what? 2100 FIDE? I am FM but only really consider GM and IM 'properly' titled.
Or are NMs respected in some way in the US? Not sniping (it's a sunny day, life is good, chess is interesting, weekend is nearly here Smiley ), I just find it surprising.


I don't consider National Master a proper "title," though I'm still happy to have achieved it.  Depending on where you are, NMs may get a little respect.  If you're playing in a small town or state without much big chess tournaments (Colorado, Wyoming, Nebraska, New Mexico, the Dakotas, Alabama, etc etc), then a NM may be respected.  In California or New York, for instance, a 2200 rating doesn't mean much.

One extremely affable and personable IM who takes a lot of flak here (perhaps rightly so), Cyrus Lakdawala, is quite a strong player: he maintains his USCF rating above 2550, when other well-known IMs like Tim Taylor hover around 2350-2400 USCF.  I've noticed that Cyrus always gives National Masters quite a bit of respect, though that may just be his personality.

Finally, I think that there are essentially two types of NMs.  The first is just someone who barely broke the 2200 barrier; perhaps this is someone similar to a FIDE CM.  On the other hand, there are quite strong National Masters who maintain a 2350ish rating (the same as some IMs and FMs here, as noted before).  Just in San Diego, I can think of Ron Bruno (currently 2356) and Kyron Griffith (currently 2401).  I think that these types of players are certainly due some respect, and if the paper that Kylemeister linked is correct, they're both of FM standard. 

If I ever move back to California and have a chance to play reasonably strong competition again, I'd like to think that I can enter this 2300+, strong NM crowd.  Perhaps I'll even get the FM title some day.  It might be odd for you to know that I was able to achieve a 2200+ rating without ever having the opportunity to play in a FIDE rated event!   

So the NM "title" varies quite a bit.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Respect for NM title
Reply #4 - 06/17/13 at 18:40:31
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kylemeister wrote on 06/14/13 at 02:58:18:
By the way, on the matter of USCF vs. FIDE ratings (a subject which has come up here before), I noticed that this recent paper gives a formula which would e.g. convert 2200 FIDE to 2202 USCF, and 2300 FIDE to 2318 USCF. 

http://www.glicko.net/ratings/rating.system.pdf


Thanks Kylemeister; in my own experience, I feel that USCF rating and actual "chess strength" fluctuates a bit depending on where you are.  A 2200 player in a big city in California, for instance, doesn't seem very strong to me, but a 2200 player in a smaller town in Nebraska, Wyoming, Colorado, etc, does.  In those places, there are usually no-one rated above 2200 to gain points from so even if the player's strength increases his rating will often not.  In California there are a plethora of 2200, 2300, 2400+, etc players to snag points from as one improves.

My own subjective feeling about FIDE vs. USCF ratings, at least down in the 2100-2400 rating range, is that they are essentially equivalent, and it's interesting to see some analysis that justifies that.
  
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dfan
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Re: Respect for NM title
Reply #3 - 06/14/13 at 13:26:16
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Bibs wrote on 06/13/13 at 22:57:07:
Or are NMs respected in some way in the US? Not sniping (it's a sunny day, life is good, chess is interesting, weekend is nearly here Smiley ), I just find it surprising.

Yes, they are.

A USCF 2200 rating places a player at about the 99th percentile of US tournament chess players. Many people consider this an accomplishment to be proud of. I guess you can blame lax American standards.
  
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Re: Respect for NM title
Reply #2 - 06/14/13 at 02:58:18
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By the way, on the matter of USCF vs. FIDE ratings (a subject which has come up here before), I noticed that this recent paper gives a formula which would e.g. convert 2200 FIDE to 2202 USCF, and 2300 FIDE to 2318 USCF. 

http://www.glicko.net/ratings/rating.system.pdf
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: Respect for NM title
Reply #1 - 06/14/13 at 01:04:24
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Bibs wrote on 06/13/13 at 22:57:07:
Fair line drawn there by SF. Sensible.

Is NM really considered 'titled'? That is a bit much surely? That's what? 2100 FIDE? I am FM but only really consider GM and IM 'properly' titled.
Or are NMs respected in some way in the US? Not sniping (it's a sunny day, life is good, chess is interesting, weekend is nearly here Smiley ), I just find it surprising.


NMs have some respect within the US just due to the relative lack of opportunity (few norm opportunities, and those available are very spread out).

That said, it's nothing to brag about. At best it's a certificate of "I have an idea of what I'm doing around a chess board".

FM/IM/GM are all "real" titles as far as I'm concerned.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Bibs
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Respect for NM title
06/13/13 at 22:57:07
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Edited:
This thread started as a discussion in another topic. I have removed direct references to that thread. ~SF


Is NM really considered 'titled'? That is a bit much surely? That's what? 2100 FIDE? I am FM but only really consider GM and IM 'properly' titled.
Or are NMs respected in some way in the US? Not sniping (it's a sunny day, life is good, chess is interesting, weekend is nearly here Smiley ), I just find it surprising.


« Last Edit: 06/18/13 at 17:04:19 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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