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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move (Read 57747 times)
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #21 - 01/28/14 at 22:30:01
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At the risk of nitpicking, the Alekhine was also famously played in 1935 in the Alekhine-Euwe match ... by Euwe.
  
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #20 - 01/28/14 at 21:55:15
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lg wrote on 01/28/14 at 20:27:16:
well, i am glad he brings back the Verezhnov (not sure about the spelling)

Voronezh.
  
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #19 - 01/28/14 at 20:27:16
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well, i am glad he brings back the Verezhnov (not sure about the spelling) and defends the black side on this line

also that he mentiones Baburin and that he is following many of his suggestions; it makes sense to follow the games of someone that consistently plays the line

the 2nd chapter is titled "the Westerinen's Anti Main line" any idea what this is?

one first criticism - he says that Spassky-Fischer 13th
was the first Alekhine played in a WC!
  
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #18 - 01/28/14 at 20:16:32
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lg wrote on 01/28/14 at 17:23:06:
a pdf is already available in everymanchess.com

no surprises about the choice against the main line;
the Miles

two surprises, however:
i) the choice of Sergev's line against the 4PA(same as Taylor's choice); i was disapointed but i must confess there is a point to this
ii) in the Exchange, besides the current usual exd6, he also devotes some time to cxd6 because J Watson says in chesspublishing.com that the line is playable against the Vorozhnev !!


thanks for alerting us to the pdf now being up. Shame that we cant tell what all the lines he covers are from it though... Undecided

I initially wasnt surprised at the chosen line against the 4PA as its fairly thematic and avoids a lot of theory in the main lines...but thinking about it more now,  and given his background with the opening he would have been well placed to provide an alternative line.

I am surprised to see him as a Cxd player in the exchange and that he is covering this line, although i am glad.

John Cox i think has also been saying for quite a while that he felt that it was still playable . 


  

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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #17 - 01/28/14 at 17:23:06
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a pdf is already available in everymanchess.com

no surprises about the choice against the main line;
the Miles

two surprises, however:
i) the choice of Sergev's line against the 4PA(same as Taylor's choice); i was disapointed but i must confess there is a point to this
ii) in the Exchange, besides the current usual exd6, he also devotes some time to cxd6 because J Watson says in chesspublishing.com that the line is playable against the Vorozhnev !!
  
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #16 - 01/18/14 at 20:31:10
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lg wrote on 01/18/14 at 15:19:48:
thanks for the discussion

here is more:

i) if you go to the chessgames.com you find two of his games, probably the most famous ones one loss where he plays 4...c6 5.Be2 Bg4 and one win agains the chase. This appears to be a "famous" game since he makes a sacrífice at the end.

to see others, use Google and you may find a few more

ii) I have mixed feelings about Taylor's book. Essentially, i dont understand some of his choices and really dislike his assertive way of writing (mor eon this below.
I did not dislike his 2. Nc3 chapter. It was informative to me (in the sense that if I fel like playing 2...e5, I will have a look at it and also at relevant books on e4.e5
His choices on minor chapters are odd. The striking exemple for me is the chapter on 4.Bc4.
Concerning the 4PA, what you mean by "hiding the critical line"?? "Hiding" means he knows about it and on purpose is not putting it in, right?
I dont like his algoritmic approach for the Exchange, If he plays this you answer this, etc. I would rather have good explanations to make me suggest the same algorithm, if I agree, right?
Also his positive/negative way of writing is odd. When he says correct (it appears that anything else is wrong) or incorrect (and then you see good players
playing it and doing well).
One example is 6...Nc6 in the Exchange (which by the way makes sense to me). But i have seen good playes playing 6...Be7 at once and allowing the Bd3 Ne2 approach for White and doing well.

However for me the two striking examples arise in the 4.Nf3 lines

In the Miles line he says that "Carlsen developped  an importante strategical improvement" when referring to 6...Bf5 in the 6.Be2 line??
I can quote a few players that played this much earlier, eg., Nigel Short.
However, it is not clear to me why 6...Bf5 is better thna the old Miles line with 6...Nd7 and it is in such cases where explanative ideas might be worth having.
Also, in these two variations, I can pose similar questions arising on moves 8 and 9, etc.

In the main line of the Kengis he says that 9...Be6 is
"accurate...but look what happens to Adamas when he plays the less precise 9...Nd7". And later on he says that this move is "an important mistake".
This important mistake has been played by several "Alekhine" players including Larsen's win against Westerinen (who has two game sin this chaper, Miroschnichenko, etc.
Taylor's explanations of why this is  a mistake are not clear to me (in fact, i am not sure he adds any).

I am one of those that thinks Cox's book há snot been improved.
However, two quick comments.

I like Bogdanov's book. My main criticism here is the
choice of games in the Miles lines that makes the author spend only a few lines on the main lines.

And in terms of explanative ideas and motivations my vote still goes to the introductions of each chapter on New ideas in the Alekhine by Burguess.



Thanks for the game suggestions i will have a look later.

I agree that Taylor's writing is let down with his dismissive style. his explanations of things he likes is good, those that he doesnt is not so good. A better work would provide quality explanations for both as you have pointed out with the nd7 line. I think Lakdawala's positive style is likely to be better for this.

Yes, perhaps hiding was not the correct wording. But, according to some of the reviews i read, the Nc3 & Be3 lines white plays against 5...g6 in the 4 pawn are the most important for the variation and the reviewers felt that Taylor glossed over how difficult they were for Black to face. While he does call the moves critical, if he is down playing the difficulties black faces against that line it is a concern, and it is unlikely that he wouldnt know which were the problematic ones. I cant remember the reviews, other than NM Mcleary's on Chessville which i cant find now due to the site being down.

I'm also glad to hear that Lakdawala was close friend of Tony Miles. I think the latter never really got the recognition that he probably deserved and it would be great if the new book was infused with games that displayed the spirit of Miles.

I had thought of moving away from the Alekhine next season and playing the French or something, but this thread is making me rethink my plan...
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #15 - 01/18/14 at 17:39:36
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ErictheRed wrote on 01/18/14 at 15:58:56:
I have no inside knowledge, but Cyrus and Tony Miles were very good friends, and I suspect that we'll see a lot of Miles' ideas in the book.  They worked together on a lot of openings in the old days. 


ps: well, the only game Miles against the 4PA in the database , he plays the main line variation
9...Qd7 10.Be2 OOO 11. OO Kb8 !?
recently mentioned by Tom Rendle in his latest post

this variation has been discussed by some of us in another (long) thread

curious is the fact that on the game
Kotronias-Short Gibraltar 2003, New in Chess 2003, nº2, where Short played the old 11...f6 ?! (?), the commentator says "Wohl himself claimed to have on four occasions played 11...Kb8, with he and the late Tony Miles having looked at stuff such as 12 a4 Bb4!?"

this was also discussed in the thread

somehow I dont beleive we will see this in his book
  
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #14 - 01/18/14 at 16:39:24
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ErictheRed wrote on 01/18/14 at 15:58:56:
I have no inside knowledge, but Cyrus and Tony Miles were very good friends, and I suspect that we'll see a lot of Miles' ideas in the book.  They worked together on a lot of openings in the old days. 


I hope so !!! Smiley
  
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #13 - 01/18/14 at 15:58:56
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I have no inside knowledge, but Cyrus and Tony Miles were very good friends, and I suspect that we'll see a lot of Miles' ideas in the book.  They worked together on a lot of openings in the old days.
  
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #12 - 01/18/14 at 15:19:48
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thanks for the discussion

here is more:

i) if you go to the chessgames.com you find two of his games, probably the most famous ones one loss where he plays 4...c6 5.Be2 Bg4 and one win agains the chase. This appears to be a "famous" game since he makes a sacrífice at the end.

to see others, use Google and you may find a few more

ii) I have mixed feelings about Taylor's book. Essentially, i dont understand some of his choices and really dislike his assertive way of writing (mor eon this below.
I did not dislike his 2. Nc3 chapter. It was informative to me (in the sense that if I fel like playing 2...e5, I will have a look at it and also at relevant books on e4.e5
His choices on minor chapters are odd. The striking exemple for me is the chapter on 4.Bc4.
Concerning the 4PA, what you mean by "hiding the critical line"?? "Hiding" means he knows about it and on purpose is not putting it in, right?
I dont like his algoritmic approach for the Exchange, If he plays this you answer this, etc. I would rather have good explanations to make me suggest the same algorithm, if I agree, right?
Also his positive/negative way of writing is odd. When he says correct (it appears that anything else is wrong) or incorrect (and then you see good players
playing it and doing well).
One example is 6...Nc6 in the Exchange (which by the way makes sense to me). But i have seen good playes playing 6...Be7 at once and allowing the Bd3 Ne2 approach for White and doing well.

However for me the two striking examples arise in the 4.Nf3 lines

In the Miles line he says that "Carlsen developped  an importante strategical improvement" when referring to 6...Bf5 in the 6.Be2 line??
I can quote a few players that played this much earlier, eg., Nigel Short.
However, it is not clear to me why 6...Bf5 is better thna the old Miles line with 6...Nd7 and it is in such cases where explanative ideas might be worth having.
Also, in these two variations, I can pose similar questions arising on moves 8 and 9, etc.

In the main line of the Kengis he says that 9...Be6 is
"accurate...but look what happens to Adamas when he plays the less precise 9...Nd7". And later on he says that this move is "an important mistake".
This important mistake has been played by several "Alekhine" players including Larsen's win against Westerinen (who has two game sin this chaper, Miroschnichenko, etc.
Taylor's explanations of why this is  a mistake are not clear to me (in fact, i am not sure he adds any).

I am one of those that thinks Cox's book há snot been improved.
However, two quick comments.

I like Bogdanov's book. My main criticism here is the
choice of games in the Miles lines that makes the author spend only a few lines on the main lines.

And in terms of explanative ideas and motivations my vote still goes to the introductions of each chapter on New ideas in the Alekhine by Burguess.







  
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #11 - 01/18/14 at 13:29:48
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What other lines has he played? i havent got games after 2010 on my database and i cant find any by him.

I thought the books were aimed for players between 1500-2000, which if correct would mean a lower average than 2000+

If so, then it should clearly be geared to what players are likely to face, with perhaps some reference to what is played by the best players (perhaps an explanation as to why the difference?). This was something that i liked in some of Taylor's chapters. I also dont think that a good chapter or two on 2nc3 options has to come at the expense of the chapters on nf3 material.

However, While i liked Taylor's book, his treatment of the 2nc3 line for me was very disappointing and although i use the line he gave for the four pawn, he did get some flack for hiding the critical line ( even the player he uses as the role model for the line i think only played about 5 games with it, and the last was about 5 or 6 years ago which raises further questions as to why).

While the Alekhine is hardly played now, i think that is in someways of benefit to the publisher as a lot of players like to catch their opponent by surprise...It has probably never had a particularly large following at club level and from looking at games in the leagues i play in, it seems that players are now using a wider range of lines in the French, Caro-Kann and Scandanavian as black, which when added to sicilian and e5 options mean that white players opening with e4 are under more pressure to learn lines against those and therefore are not going to spend much if any time learning the Alekhine.

Also a well written book could prove profitable, if it is successful in increasing the interest of the Alekhine at club level it could increase the chances of a more detailed Alekhine book for stronger players to follow. Despite the Taylor and Bogdanov books being released since Cox's book came out, i think a lot of interested readers still feel that Cox's book hasnt been improved upon.

There are a lot more books on the other openings, and they are probably harder to write in a move by move format. More likely to be split into variations of the openings i would guess (there is already that book by collins on the Tarrasch for example) I wouldnt be surprised though if Everyman already have some of them lined up for future release!
  

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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #10 - 01/18/14 at 12:01:03
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i) I mentioned 4...Bg4 5Be2 c6 because he has played it several times, also under the move order 4...c6 5Be2 Bg4 (and here I dont understand this because with the first move order Black reduces White's options). But I hope we see the Miles, old and new.

ii) The main question in a repertoire book for an audience with average 2200 (2000?) Elo is to know
whether the material should be divided by
a) what is best according to the best players
or
b) what is generally played by players of 2200

At first sight one may be inclined to choice b) but does it make sense to have more pages on 2.Nc3 than on 4.Nf3?
Also the best choice for variations and subvariations helps you to become better at chess, i think.

iii) Funny is that Taylor's book is a repertoire book.
This is also a repertoire book. Does it make sense to publish one after the other with a 2 year interval?
The Alekhine is seldom played. Will the book sell?
I am looking forward to the book but as a publisher
shouldnt I be asking for a Move by Move book
in the QG accepted, another on the QC declined;
anothe ron the Kings' indian, even one on the Dutch,
SOME on variation sof the Ruy Lopes, etc?

iv) anyway book was delayed


according
  
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #9 - 01/15/14 at 23:40:51
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lg wrote on 01/15/14 at 21:31:03:
RoleyPoley wrote on 01/13/14 at 00:26:59:
Anyone heard anything about what lines will be in this book?

I hope its not another one of those books that recommends 2....e5 against 2 Nc3.....but if he does, then i hope he actually provides a proper set of lines to enable the reader to play it...


After 4. Nf3 i think he would suggest either 4...c6, 4...dxe5 5. Nxe5 c6 or 4...Bg4 5.Be2 c6

These are lines which are worth a book with good comments (such as the ones he does in the his Slav book).
Sincerely, I would prefer the first two.

Concerning 2.Nc3 e5 in case it is his choice, then I would prefer a "pointer" to 1e4e5 books and not waste pages with such lines.
I would not mind "lines I dont recommend" with updated games (which is not the case of Taylor's book).


I would agree that the c6 or dxe5, c6 line is likely to be picked. I would be surprised at the Bg4 line as i thought that had been viewed as unfavourable for black for quite a few years.

It seems pointless having e5 as a recommendation against 2. Nc3 if lines arent given simply because low graded players like myself face 2.Nc3 more than any other move so the book would be otherwise fairly redundant. In  5+ years of playing the Alekhine regularly i've only played against the modern variation once, and the four pawns attack maybe 3 times and the chase variation twice. Everyone else seems to go for the Exchange (maybe because it is given in most of the repertoire books) or Nc3..

Instead of e5, i would prefer to see the d5 line that allows a transposition into a french set up (I think according to Cox, this was Alekhine's preference), that in many cases wont be the line that white would normally play and for black would be a position they could become quite familiar with fairly quickly.

I think Lakdawala wrote a book on the four knights so i would guess he could provide a couple of chapters for the e5 repertoire if thats the path he goes down.

  

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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #8 - 01/15/14 at 21:31:03
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RoleyPoley wrote on 01/13/14 at 00:26:59:
Anyone heard anything about what lines will be in this book?

I hope its not another one of those books that recommends 2....e5 against 2 Nc3.....but if he does, then i hope he actually provides a proper set of lines to enable the reader to play it...


After 4. Nf3 i think he would suggest either 4...c6, 4...dxe5 5. Nxe5 c6 or 4...Bg4 5.Be2 c6

These are lines which are worth a book with good comments (such as the ones he does in the his Slav book).
Sincerely, I would prefer the first two.

Concerning 2.Nc3 e5 in case it is his choice, then I would prefer a "pointer" to 1e4e5 books and not waste pages with such lines.
I would not mind "lines I dont recommend" with updated games (which is not the case of Taylor's book).
  
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Re: The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
Reply #7 - 01/13/14 at 00:26:59
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Anyone heard anything about what lines will be in this book?

I hope its not another one of those books that recommends 2....e5 against 2 Nc3.....but if he does, then i hope he actually provides a proper set of lines to enable the reader to play it...
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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