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Poll closed Question: What was the Opening Book of the Year for 2013?
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The King's Gambit ~ Shaw    
  23 (32.4%)
The Open Spanish ~ Mikhalevski    
  6 (8.5%)
The Panov-Botvinnik Attack ~ D'Costa    
  0 (0.0%)
Kotronias on the King's Indian, V. 1: Fianch    
  4 (5.6%)
GM Repertoire 12: The Modern Benoni~ Petrov    
  3 (4.2%)
Playing the French ~Aagaard & Ntirlis    
  14 (19.7%)
The Ultimate anti-Grunfeld...~Svetushkin    
  2 (2.8%)
A Practical White Rep. w/ 1.d4 &2.c4~Kornev    
  4 (5.6%)
GM Repertoire 14: The French Defence v 1~Berg    
  0 (0.0%)
The Perfect Pirc-Modern ~Moskalenko    
  3 (4.2%)
GM Repertoire 14: The French Defence v 2~Berg    
  5 (7.0%)
Cunning Chess Opening Rep. for White~Burgess    
  7 (9.9%)




Total votes: 71
« Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 02/12/14 at 16:31:48 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) John Shaw wins 2013 Opening Book of the Year! (Read 68549 times)
TalJechin
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #132 - 02/27/14 at 14:25:42
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tp2205 wrote on 02/27/14 at 13:50:51:
tony37 wrote on 02/27/14 at 11:07:45:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/27/14 at 10:32:58:
Aziridine wrote on 02/27/14 at 10:19:00:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/27/14 at 09:05:23:
There is this thing called copyright law. When an author is quoting another author, he must credit the source properly. Plagiarism in chess is a violation of the law, period.

Again, this is not the case. Plagiarism is an ethical matter and is not the same thing as copyright infringement. I don't think you'll find any law that mandates proper attribution of ideas originally conceived of by another author.

I still believe that I am right, at least regarding the German copyright law: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zitat#Deutschland
Can it be different in the UK, really? Are there no international treaties which make sure that my copyright is protected? I am pretty tired of this hair-splitting. Let's hope that Scotland secedes from the UK and renovates its justice system.

so anyone who discovers that 37 times 3 is 111 should credit the first person who published this analysis

No point in being facetious. The similarities go beyond that. A statement from QC (who by now should be well aware of the issue) would be nice and would make it hopefully possible to close this issue.


Normally, one would assume that with today's engine people can find the same lines quite independently. But since Stefan wrote earlier in the thread that QC asked him for all issues of Kaissiber and he sent it to them for free.. If that's true then it's hard for them to claim independent discovery.
  
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tp2205
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #131 - 02/27/14 at 13:50:51
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tony37 wrote on 02/27/14 at 11:07:45:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/27/14 at 10:32:58:
Aziridine wrote on 02/27/14 at 10:19:00:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/27/14 at 09:05:23:
There is this thing called copyright law. When an author is quoting another author, he must credit the source properly. Plagiarism in chess is a violation of the law, period.

Again, this is not the case. Plagiarism is an ethical matter and is not the same thing as copyright infringement. I don't think you'll find any law that mandates proper attribution of ideas originally conceived of by another author.

I still believe that I am right, at least regarding the German copyright law: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zitat#Deutschland
Can it be different in the UK, really? Are there no international treaties which make sure that my copyright is protected? I am pretty tired of this hair-splitting. Let's hope that Scotland secedes from the UK and renovates its justice system.

so anyone who discovers that 37 times 3 is 111 should credit the first person who published this analysis

No point in being facetious. The similarities go beyond that. A statement from QC (who by now should be well aware of the issue) would be nice and would make it hopefully possible to close this issue.
  
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tony37
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #130 - 02/27/14 at 11:07:45
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/27/14 at 10:32:58:
Aziridine wrote on 02/27/14 at 10:19:00:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/27/14 at 09:05:23:
There is this thing called copyright law. When an author is quoting another author, he must credit the source properly. Plagiarism in chess is a violation of the law, period.

Again, this is not the case. Plagiarism is an ethical matter and is not the same thing as copyright infringement. I don't think you'll find any law that mandates proper attribution of ideas originally conceived of by another author.

I still believe that I am right, at least regarding the German copyright law: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zitat#Deutschland
Can it be different in the UK, really? Are there no international treaties which make sure that my copyright is protected? I am pretty tired of this hair-splitting. Let's hope that Scotland secedes from the UK and renovates its justice system.

so anyone who discovers that 37 times 3 is 111 should credit the first person who published this analysis
  
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Aziridine
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #129 - 02/27/14 at 11:03:27
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It looks like you're talking about Article 63 of the German copyright law (http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/UrhG.htm#63). I claim no knowledge of UK law (although it appears there is a requirement for "sufficient acknowledgement"), but here in the USA there is no explicit stipulation that sources be acknowledged, and everything I have said is in relation to this only. Plagiarists, you're safe with us!...
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #128 - 02/27/14 at 10:32:58
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Aziridine wrote on 02/27/14 at 10:19:00:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/27/14 at 09:05:23:
There is this thing called copyright law. When an author is quoting another author, he must credit the source properly. Plagiarism in chess is a violation of the law, period.

Again, this is not the case. Plagiarism is an ethical matter and is not the same thing as copyright infringement. I don't think you'll find any law that mandates proper attribution of ideas originally conceived of by another author.

I still believe that I am right, at least regarding the German copyright law: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zitat#Deutschland
Can it be different in the UK, really? Are there no international treaties which make sure that my copyright is protected? I am pretty tired of this hair-splitting. Let's hope that Scotland secedes from the UK and renovates its justice system.
  
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Aziridine
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #127 - 02/27/14 at 10:19:00
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/27/14 at 09:05:23:
There is this thing called copyright law. When an author is quoting another author, he must credit the source properly. Plagiarism in chess is a violation of the law, period.

Again, this is not the case. Plagiarism is an ethical matter and is not the same thing as copyright infringement. I don't think you'll find any law that mandates proper attribution of ideas originally conceived of by another author.
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/26/14 at 18:40:08:
Well, let me just say that almost the whole chapter, from p. 85 to p. 89, consists of variations from my article in Kaissiber #33. Don't you think I have made my point? For example, on page 88, above, Shaw says about 14. Bd2: "Bücker analzed this move in detail", then he continues with lines from my article for about the next two pages. If this is "proper crediting", I'd be surprised.

Case in point: if Shaw has copied your work so closely that it constitutes copyright infringement, then it does not matter how "properly" he credits you - it is still copyright infringement. Whether or not he attributes the analysis to you is completely irrelevant from a legal point of view.
  
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tony37
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #126 - 02/27/14 at 09:17:52
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/27/14 at 09:13:26:
tony37 wrote on 02/26/14 at 18:55:22:
I did the test with Rybka 2.2 32-bit (which I never used but happens to be on my pc) and it's not difficult at all to find this line

So what? The variation appeared in Kaissiber in 2008, Shaw's book was published in 2013. - Years ago I had an e-mail exchange with a GM who "lifted" earlier analysis from Lev Gutman into his own book, without crediting Gutman for it. So what was his excuse? That he hasn't credited analysis from Gutman if he felt he "would have been able to find the line" himself. On a bright, sunny day, I suppose.

Grin   Angry  Grin

people coming to the same conclusions (which is very likely in this position) has nothing to do with violating copyrights
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #125 - 02/27/14 at 09:13:26
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tony37 wrote on 02/26/14 at 18:55:22:
I did the test with Rybka 2.2 32-bit (which I never used but happens to be on my pc) and it's not difficult at all to find this line

So what? The variation appeared in Kaissiber in 2008, Shaw's book was published in 2013. - Years ago I had an e-mail exchange with a GM who "lifted" earlier analysis from Lev Gutman into his own book, without crediting Gutman for it. So what was his excuse? That he hasn't credited analysis from Gutman if he felt he "would have been able to find the line" himself. On a bright, sunny day, I suppose.

Grin   Angry  Grin
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #124 - 02/27/14 at 09:05:23
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/26/14 at 19:36:53:
I have not yet decided whether to split the discussion of the Kings' Gambit off or leave it as part of the record.

Both ways are fine with me. It would be sufficient to add a remark that the winning book has faced criticism, plus a link.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/26/14 at 19:36:53:
I would feel very uncomfortable if the author of one of the books were to post as much as Stefan has  to argue that his book should win, [...]

I knew from the start what would happen, when the issues of N or copyright violations were raised. The reaction was more or less what I knew from this forum ("watch out, there is Edward Winter hiding behind the bush"). What I didn't expect was the opposition from authors. They should really care more about copyright. - You can be sure, Smylov_Fan, that any author who tries to advertise his own work in such a poll would face the same resistance from members, if not more. So I don't see a problem.

There is this thing called copyright law. When an author is quoting another author, he must credit the source properly. Plagiarism in chess is a violation of the law, period. If a moderator doesn't feel responsible for setting a minimum standard in such a competition, Tony Kosten might step in and look at the matter. - You can call it "negative campaigning", Smyslov_Fan, but the problem is real and doesn't go away by closing your eyes.
  
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #123 - 02/26/14 at 19:36:53
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This has been a contentious discussion all along.  I have not stepped in much because the parties involved have, for the most part, behaved appropriately.

I have not moved this discussion to the King's Gambit section because it is absolutely clear that this is a direct campaign against one of the candidates for book of the year.

I would feel very uncomfortable if the author of one of the books were to post as much as Stefan has to argue that his book should win, but I believe the readers are intelligent enough to read highly opinionated posts and work out for themselves which way to vote (or to abstain, as the case may be). This is not the Oscars. Campaigning and negative campaigning are not against the rules here.

The poll closes on Friday. I have not yet decided whether to split the discussion of the Kings' Gambit off or leave it as part of the record.

I am open to a discussion of whether negative campaigning should be allowed in future ChessPub polls.


Edited:
Edited to fix a grammatical error. ~SF

  
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #122 - 02/26/14 at 18:55:22
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/26/14 at 18:40:08:
tony37 wrote on 02/26/14 at 18:22:46:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/26/14 at 16:43:17:
The variation 12...Bxe5 ... 18.Bb3 on page 87 was from Kaissiber, it isn't credited.


how do you know? if it's perfectly possible to find this with any decent engine (and by the way, it is, it's something like a forced sequence), why should someone else be credited?


Well, let me just say that almost the whole chapter, from p. 85 to p. 89, consists of variations from my article in Kaissiber #33. Don't you think I have made my point? For example, on page 88, above, Shaw says about 14. Bd2: "Bücker analzed this move in detail", then he continues with lines from my article for about the next two pages. If this is "proper crediting", I'd be surprised. - The forced character of the line may be obvious to you, with a fast PC. Maybe it wasn't so easy to find with Rybka 2.2.3a in 2008?

I did the test with Rybka 2.2 32-bit (which I never used but happens to be on my pc) and it's not difficult at all to find this line
  
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #121 - 02/26/14 at 18:40:08
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tony37 wrote on 02/26/14 at 18:22:46:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/26/14 at 16:43:17:
The variation 12...Bxe5 ... 18.Bb3 on page 87 was from Kaissiber, it isn't credited.


how do you know? if it's perfectly possible to find this with any decent engine (and by the way, it is, it's something like a forced sequence), why should someone else be credited?


Well, let me just say that almost the whole chapter, from p. 85 to p. 89, consists of variations from my article in Kaissiber #33. Don't you think I have made my point? For example, on page 88, above, Shaw says about 14. Bd2: "Bücker analzed this move in detail", then he continues with lines from my article for about the next two pages. If this is "proper crediting", I'd be surprised. - The forced character of the line may be obvious to you, with a fast PC. Maybe it wasn't so easy to find with Rybka 2.2.3a in 2008?
  
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #120 - 02/26/14 at 18:31:46
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I don't think I've written that I'm okay with Shaw not crediting the analysis, but that's not the point.  And I don't mean to bring your name into things, Taljechin, if I shouldn't, but you seemed to confirm one or two things in the other thread--sorry if I misread you.  Another reason to have all the comments in one place.

Stefan, you had some support for your cause a few days and a couple of pages ago, but if I know human nature you're losing it fast.  Best turn it into a productive discussion quickly instead of just creating a bigger list of mistakes and omissions, which looks like antagonism. 
  
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #119 - 02/26/14 at 18:29:22
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/26/14 at 13:30:51:
However, I am personally more interested in main lines. That main line of Shaw's recommended Quaade follows the game Zvjaginsev - Smirnov, 2008: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.g3 d6 6.d4 Bg7 7.d5 Ne5 8.gxf4 gxf4 9.Bxf4 Bg4 10.Bb5+ Kf8 11.Be2 Bxf3 12.Bxf3 Qf6 13.Bxe5 Qxe5. Shaw recommends "14.Qd3!?N". One of his lines goes: "14...Qg5 also stops long castling, but then 15.Ke2!? (unclear) is fun; the rooks are likely to be well placed on f1 and g1." A possible continuation would be 15...Re8 16.Raf1 Nf6.

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Not much fun for White, if you ask me. Black has a slight plus.

As an addendum, Henk Smout reports that the move 14.Qd3, which Shaw recommended as his own "N" (no need to write novelty), had appeared in an older source: NiC Yearbook 93 (2009). Michael Agermose Jensen's article "Satisfaction for Mr Fischer - Part I" comments (p. 136) on Zviagintsev - Smirnov 2008, and here MA Jensen suggests 14.Qd3 intending to castle long. 
  
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Re: 2013 Opening Book of the Year
Reply #118 - 02/26/14 at 18:22:46
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/26/14 at 16:43:17:
The variation 12...Bxe5 ... 18.Bb3 on page 87 was from Kaissiber, it isn't credited.


how do you know? if it's perfectly possible to find this with any decent engine (and by the way, it is, it's something like a forced sequence), why should someone else be credited?
  
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